Why not join the Air Force as a JAG?

I mean if you really are that fucked. http://www.airforceGuest06/26/08
I don't think that a lot of folks on here would qualify. ItGuest06/26/08
I hope it is not that competitive, I want to do big law for Guest06/26/08
Are you sure it's that competitive? I heard the military wasGuest06/26/08
knowing how picky military can be for rank and file types evGuest06/26/08
Pre Donald Rumsfeld JAG was easier to get into. When he tookGuest06/26/08
"The Army and Air Force are both ok but Air Force bases tendGuest06/26/08
"You've obviously never been to Patrick or Elgin AFB, both wGuest06/26/08
How hard is it to get a Navy JAG commission? I am a OL an thGuest06/26/08
I graduated with quite a few people who joined JAG. I'm notGuest06/26/08
A good friend of mine is a JAG. He was stationed over in IraGuest06/26/08
I don't know but NYU is a good school and if you start the bGuest06/26/08
35 is not too old. You could do it if you wanted to. ______Guest06/26/08
It is 42 in the Navy as per the navy jag site.Guest06/26/08
Author: al anon Time: June 26, 2008 - 9:28 am A good friGuest06/26/08
I spent some time in the Air Force and I worked with a JAG oGuest06/26/08
Well, I think its safe to say he was merely illustrating theGuest06/26/08
"A good friend of mine is a JAG. He was stationed over in IrGuest06/26/08
I looked at the JAG for a while before I decided to sell outGuest06/26/08
You think you can just join Air Force JAG?? Think again. I iGuest06/26/08
I graduated from a bottom tier law school in May and I'm aboafjag02/03/14
Hilarious - about the time this was posted everybody was stieddiemunster02/03/14
What is the starting salary for JAG at 3 branches? And earniskychaser02/03/14
Are you actually asking whether the pay is different for a nt3success02/04/14
haha, got married in my last yr before they tried to send meskychaser02/04/14
Are you sure they all start as an O-3? And yes, some may rookie02/04/14
For the Air Force, you start as an O-2 and get an automatic afjag02/04/14



Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I mean if you really are that fucked.

http://www.airforce.com/careers/job.php?catg_id=1&sub_catg_id=3&af_job_id=5

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I don't think that a lot of folks on here would qualify. It is actually pretty goddamned competitive. I have a buddy who just made it in to Army JAG and it was not easy, even after spending three years as a paralegal (enlisted) in an Army Reserve JAG unit.

JAGs do get to do some fun shit though, like overseeing interrogations and withholding bottle service from detainees.

Seriously though, those are officer slots and there are a lot of benefits. Consider that many of those guys retire at 45 with lifetime pensions and healthcare packages. Not to mention a metric shit-ton of trial experience. They can pretty much do whatever the fuck they want at that point, or just stay at home with the family and enjoy life. They don't burn out like shitlaw and biglaw workers.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I hope it is not that competitive, I want to do big law for three years, burn out, and then lateral into an in house job or something like JAG. I think it would be cool to retire at 45-50 and hang a shingle in my old age.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

Are you sure it's that competitive? I heard the military was always looking for lawyers since not many people want or can do 'jag'. (i.e. Fatso, non-citizen freaks, hippies, fags)

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

knowing how picky military can be for rank and file types even in the midst of a multinational occupation in the middle east, i would say yes.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

Pre Donald Rumsfeld JAG was easier to get into. When he took over he scaled back the on the number of military lawyers in favor of government or civilian lawyers, especially for administrative type shit (base land deals, etc). JAG is competitive but not as competitive as biglaw. You will get a lot of experience and the benefits at retirement are nice. Keep in mind that some will get drummed out of the military if they don't fit the mold just like biglaw but on a much lower percentage. (this is all info from a friend who went JAG)

If you are going to do it you should get into it in law school if you want to make more money. They'll usually count the time you're in school as time served to push you up a peg or two on the pay scale but you have to actually join before you graduate.

Personally, I would try to get in the Navy ahead of the other three branches. If you join the Marines you have to do everything any other Marine officer does training wise. There are no shitbag Marines. The Army and Air Force are both ok but Air Force bases tend to be in the middle of nowhere. In the Army this is less of a problem but it is still kind of luck of the draw. Virtually every Naval base is on water and most are in decent weather locations as well. Then again there is the chance that you get stuck on a ship for six months so there is that trade off but you would get to see the world.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

"The Army and Air Force are both ok but Air Force bases tend to be in the middle of nowhere. "

____________________________________

You've obviously never been to Patrick or Elgin AFB, both within striking distance of FL beaches, and of course loaded with t&a. The Air Force played the same game as the Navy and told DOD they needed to be near water so their jets wouldn't disturb anybody. They have some remote places too, but then again if you do get deployed to Iraq or Afganistan, the tour is only four months versus a year or so with the Army and slightly less for the Navy and Marines. For quality of life, nobody beats the Air Force, (definitely not the Navy) which is why AF is the most competitive service for JAG admission.

The downside is because of the lower rates of turnover and smaller overall size, promotions tend to be a lot slower than the Navy or Army.


"Keep in mind that some will get drummed out of the military if they don't fit the mold just like biglaw but on a much lower percentage. (this is all info from a friend who went JAG)"
__________________________________________
You'd really have to be a shitbag to get totally booted, but it is true that one bad OER can pretty much kill your promotion potential. And the Marines still have their share of shitbags too - check the population of Leavenworth for proof.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

"You've obviously never been to Patrick or Elgin AFB, both within striking distance of FL beaches, and of course loaded with t&a."

I've actually been to both and if you mean single moms by T&A in Ft. Walton you're spot on.

On average the Chair Force has many more installations in the middle of nowhere. That is an undeniable fact. If you have no problem with the very real chance of spending 2, 3, 4, or even 5 years stationed in Nebraska or alike the Air Force is your best bet. Major Naval installations are virtually all near water. Norfolk, San Diego, the list goes on and on. Sure there is a chance you could get stuck in a place like Diego Garcia but the odds are stacked much more in your favor that you will get a decent duty station in the Navy above all of the other branches.

The Air Force is known for treating its people well but I consider where you live a huge part of quality of life.

Here’s the proof.

http://tinyurl.com/6c3v44

http://tinyurl.com/5p5k5x

Conspicuously absent from the Navy list are the states of North Dakota, Wyoming, Oklahoma, Alaska, Nebraska, Idaho, Utah, and Kansas.

Also, by shitbag I mean physical shitbag. You will not get through Marine TBS unless you are in excellent shape. The 4 or 6 week basic training JAG's go through in all the other branches is like summer camp compared to what Marine JAG's go through.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

How hard is it to get a Navy JAG commission? I am a OL an think I might really prefer this to biglaw. I don't know if I can stand the douchebags who work in big law and am looking for any decent alternative to working for my fathers firm I can find. I go to NYU. What class rank do you think I would need? Some of you seem to be familiar with the program.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I graduated with quite a few people who joined JAG. I'm not sure how competitive it is, but it seemed that more people got jobs with JAG than with anything else. And several people who got on were at median or below. I inquired about the program and they called me continuously until I told them that I had changed my mind, so it seems that they need people. You have to do the whole basic training thing just like everyone else. There is also an option to do JAG part time.

As for the "fatso" remark by the poster with the delightful handle, you're WRONG. One of the guys I graduated with got on Navy JAG was five-four and 200 pounds. He was sent to Iraq, I think.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

A good friend of mine is a JAG. He was stationed over in Iraq (Green Zone) for a while a couple years back. He always points out that when the Iraqis start shooting at the base you can't just go hide behind your laptop, you have to put down your briefs pick up a gun and start shooting back.

That's not something everyone around here could just do.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I don't know but NYU is a good school and if you start the ball rolling early you're just doing yourself a favor in the end. You might even be able to get comissioned before grades come out in which case you'd probably just need to maintain a respectable gpa and they'll leave you alone. It used to work that you could get commissioned then go inactive while in school and then you would go active and work during the summer. The time in school would count as time in and when you graduate and go active full time you slide up on the pay scale because you have 1, 2 or 3 years in already.

Contact a recruiter and talk to current JAG's in all branches. The Navy is not really hurting for officers in most areas so I don't know how hard it would be but it is not impossible by any stretch.

It really isn't a bad gig if you don't have a family and aren't in a serious relationship.

ps- that fatso was sure to be going to extra fat body pt sessions and most likely needed a waiver to move on. Navy and Army JAG's don't go through the same training as regular officers. I don't know about Air Force but I'd bet it is different as well.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

35 is not too old. You could do it if you wanted to.
______________________________

Q: What are the requirements for active duty?
A: Our minimum requirements are that you be less than 35 years of age, a U.S. citizen, a graduate of an ABA-accredited law school, and are admitted to the highest court of any state or the federal bar.

http://www.jagusaf.hq.af.mil/FAQs/morefaqs.htm

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

It is 42 in the Navy as per the navy jag site.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

Author: al anon
Time: June 26, 2008 - 9:28 am

A good friend of mine is a JAG. He was stationed over in Iraq (Green Zone) for a while a couple years back. He always points out that when the Iraqis start shooting at the base you can't just go hide behind your laptop, you have to put down your briefs pick up a gun and start shooting back.

That's not something everyone around here could just do.
_________________________

No disrespect to your friend, but I'm calling bullshit on that one. I was in Iraq from 2004-2005 and I'd like to know when and where he was ever in a position to return rifle fire as a JAG officer from the green zone. The hajis attacked the green zone using indirect fire (rockets, mortars) or maybe a car bomb (VBIED). Whenever that happens, if you aren't already dead the first thing you do is seek cover, as there is no visible enemy to shoot at.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I spent some time in the Air Force and I worked with a JAG on a few projects, and I interned one summer in the JAG office at Andrews. Air Force JAGs work 40 hour weeks, tend to remain stateside, and have good promotion opportunities. When they get out, they tend to work for federal agencies, and occasionally they work for defense contractors. I did not see any evidence that Air Force JAGs could get jobs at big firms.

As for the JAGs I met, one went to GULC, one to Ohio State, one to University of Dayton, one to University of Maryland, one to University of South Carolina, one to University of Arizona, and one to Suffolk University.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

Well, I think its safe to say he was merely illustrating the point that JAG attorneys require more than traditional legal positions. This usually followed a conversation where a classmate wondered if becoming a JAG would help them get a better position with the federal govt.

He didn't mention specifics and I wasn't about to be a dick to him asking for specifics or any details. I doubt that would be appropriate. He wasn't exactly bragging about it or acting like Rambo (where do they find some of you people?)

He was prettying high up over there and is getting his advanced degree then teaching at the JAG school in the fall so I tend to listen when he talks. One of the smartest lawyers I've been around. Perhaps it got lost somewhat in the translation to a random message board on the internet. That's likely my fault.

The point was...many people around here bemoan why didn't they become a cop or an electrician and make all the fat cash. And I was simply using an anecdote I'd heard on why being a JAG isn't for everyone. No more, no less.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

"A good friend of mine is a JAG. He was stationed over in Iraq (Green Zone) for a while a couple years back. He always points out that when the Iraqis start shooting at the base you can't just go hide behind your laptop, you have to put down your briefs pick up a gun and start shooting back."

Absurd, your friend is lying to you. Never happen. Anyone who knows anything about the AF knows this is almost comical.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

I looked at the JAG for a while before I decided to sell out, and one thing I was told is that you have a lot better chance of getting in if you tell them that you want to go to Iraq ASAP.
I still might do JAG, depending on who the next president is, JAGs learn a lot of trial skills and its a great way to serve.

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Guest (Jun 26, 2008 - 2:49 pm)

You think you can just join Air Force JAG?? Think again. I interviewed and the dude who interviewed me was Harvard undergrad and Harvard law, think he cured cancer too. I didn't stand a fucking chance!

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afjag (Feb 3, 2014 - 6:55 pm)

I graduated from a bottom tier law school in May and I'm about to be shipped to Andersen Air Force Base in Guam as a new JAG. I was really surprised how hard it was to find reliable information about the process and what to expect. I made a blog to keep my family informed and hopefully answer other prospective JAGs' questions that I was in the dark about. Check it out. http://air-force-jag-journey.blogspot.com/

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eddiemunster (Feb 3, 2014 - 7:02 pm)

Hilarious - about the time this was posted everybody was still considering any military option to be for losers.

Congrats & enjoy the Air Force - I hear it's kinda like the military.

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skychaser (Feb 3, 2014 - 11:01 pm)

What is the starting salary for JAG at 3 branches? And earning potential. Man, I should've stayed in zoomies ROTC and just start out as a lt after college

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t3success (Feb 4, 2014 - 8:22 am)

Are you actually asking whether the pay is different for a new O-3 across the branches? How were you in Rotc and do not know this?

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skychaser (Feb 4, 2014 - 8:59 am)

haha, got married in my last yr before they tried to send me to flight school in bush era, wife didnt want me to get shipped to afgan. didnt look too much inyo the payscale since then.

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rookie (Feb 4, 2014 - 10:59 am)

Are you sure they all start as an O-3?

And yes, some may have bonuses (it may vary from time to time, call them and ask)

ROTC would have landed you as an 0-1, and I saw guys go full career and still only land an 0-3, so you may have been in the same boat anyways but with an MOS where you bury dead people. (its part of quartermaster)

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afjag (Feb 4, 2014 - 11:46 am)

For the Air Force, you start as an O-2 and get an automatic promotion to O-3 after 6 months. http://www.militaryfactory.com/military_pay_scale.asp

The salary can be a bit deceiving, though. On top of it you get untaxed income for living expenses that varies depending on where you live. http://www.defensetravel.dod.mil/site/bah.cfm

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