Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

How is North Carolina School of Law

Seems like it has excellent reputation in the South. How's t mrlollipop11/11/14
http://law.nccu.edu/ Completely unappreciated. heythere11/11/14
UNC-Chapel Hill is a rare school that is solid and affordabl 3rdamendmentscholar11/11/14
Outside of NC it has no reputation, you "can" get big law if gator11/11/14
The law school admitted athletes that took fake classes? rainsofcastamere11/11/14
No, but the university did, if that stuff happens at the "br gator11/11/14
"No, but the university did, if that stuff happens at the "b beepbeep11/11/14
The UNC brand is not tarnished by a bunch of football player jackiechiles11/11/14
Most major schools in the SE aren't real academic schools. gator11/11/14
Wow gator, you feel really passionately about this. Regardle pherc11/11/14
Agree, and the reputation is what it is. It isn't T-14, U gator11/11/14
Your hatred is possibly clouding your judgment. I grew up i tdkerabatsos11/11/14
So you are the person whose cloud is a bit biased. No on gator11/11/14
You didn't hurt my feelings, I didn't go to any of these sch tdkerabatsos11/11/14
Carmax, Capital One, State Government of the wealthiest stat gator11/11/14
Pretty aggressive responses here, Gator. Glad to learn that tdkerabatsos11/11/14
Of course not, I'm not white trash....at least Richmond has gator11/11/14
Yes, Cadwalader is still in Charlotte. WCSR has about 550 tdkerabatsos11/11/14
Aren't they based in Columbia, South Carolina? I'll stop gator11/11/14
Based in Winston-Salem. tdkerabatsos11/11/14
Seems midlaw at best, if I was forced to work there, I'd mov gator11/11/14
Nobody in Atlanta cares about UVA. jackiechiles11/11/14
In 2006 I got into UNC undergrad and was rejected outright b kippi11/18/14
It's not a powerhouse, but it's a Top 5 public university. tdkerabatsos11/18/14
Why do you hate both schools? rainsofcastamere11/11/14
I wasn't really speaking to the law school, although again I pherc11/11/14
When did this board turn into Auto Admit? mountainhawk1111/11/14
Pretty obvious Gator is a UVA grad. In state of course, whic barnone11/12/14
UNC and UVA are both great undergraduate colleges and fine l 3rdamendmentscholar11/12/14
I'm from Ohio, grew up outside Cleveland. Ohio has crappy gator11/12/14
http://www.richmondbizsense.com/200 9/07/23/hokies-edge-wahoo 3rdamendmentscholar11/12/14
I'm sure that survey is very scientific. and all of the UVA gator11/12/14
You seem like an insecure person. Good day. 3rdamendmentscholar11/12/14
I seem like a rational person that presents facts, people ru gator11/12/14
Generally, anyone building a residential or commercial build rainsofcastamere11/12/14
"Why would an engineering graduate go to law school for thre gator11/12/14
UVA: University of Virgins Assaulted lennaykekuabiglawjob11/20/14
These stats actually do not surprise me at all. Realistical rainsofcastamere11/12/14
2008 UNC law grad. When I was there OCIs were decent. Ac lawsmith11/12/14
I practice in NC, and Lawsmith is pretty spot on. UNC is fi mountainhawk1111/12/14
Gator: you're an insecure f*cktard. And Thomas Jefferson rap lennaykekuabiglawjob04/15/17
I don't think gator is around anymore, but you have a gift f 3lol04/19/17
UNC Law I would rate as solid state flagship university with hairypalms04/16/17
NCCU is a bad bet for 95% of those who go there. That said, rainsofcastamere04/18/17
Great thread getting revived. UNC is a fine school and is mo triplesix04/19/17



mrlollipop (Nov 11, 2014 - 12:01 am)

Seems like it has excellent reputation in the South. How's the school really?

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heythere (Nov 11, 2014 - 12:12 am)

http://law.nccu.edu/

Completely unappreciated.

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3rdamendmentscholar (Nov 11, 2014 - 7:49 am)

UNC-Chapel Hill is a rare school that is solid and affordable. It's the state flagship and a pretty good bet if you want to work in North Carolina, given that the NC legal community is thoroughly dominated by its graduates. Placement isn't as good as it once was (like anywhere outside the T14), and it's not a ticket to DC/NY Biglaw like some people inaccurately believe. But it's a fine bet for Charlotte/Raleigh/Atlanta Biglaw or Midlaw, or government/public interest work/ID/pooplaw in North Carolina. Not too many graduates are genuinely unemployed. Chapel Hill is also a phenomenally cool college town.

North Carolina Central, mentioned by a poster above, is a historically black university in a not-so-nice part of Durham (which is also a pretty fun town). To its credit, it is affordable, offers the only night program in the state, and is geared towards educating minorities (though > 50% of the law students are white) and non-traditional students. That said, the median LSAT hovers around 150 and job placement is atrocious. I would never recommend that anyone go there unless they already had a job offer pre-law school.

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 8:58 am)

Outside of NC it has no reputation, you "can" get big law if you have connections...all UNClaw grads I worked with had pre-existing contacts. No one cares about it in DC or Atlanta, there are plenty of other local schools or T-14 (UVA, Duke) grads that will take those positions.

And it doesn't help that they pretty much admitted that athletes took fake classes.

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rainsofcastamere (Nov 11, 2014 - 9:08 am)

The law school admitted athletes that took fake classes?

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 9:12 am)

No, but the university did, if that stuff happens at the "brand" level the whole brand is tarnished. Including "trap" law schools like UNC. To the extent one has connections and wants to work in North Carolina, it is fine and inexpensive. To the extent you want to work in Atlanta, Richmond, Miami, Birmingham, or DC, UNC won't hurt anyone, but it has no recognition. Hunton and Williams is going to hire UVA grads, not UNC grads.

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beepbeep (Nov 11, 2014 - 9:54 am)

"No, but the university did, if that stuff happens at the "brand" level the whole brand is tarnished."

How's your sophomore year going?

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jackiechiles (Nov 11, 2014 - 9:56 am)

The UNC brand is not tarnished by a bunch of football players taking fake classes. Literally every major school in the Southeast does something of that nature for athletes. If you thought that there were tons of employers hiring African Studies Majors before that story came out, you're delusional.

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 10:05 am)

Most major schools in the SE aren't real academic schools. Is anyone surprised that Auburn or LSU cheats? If you want a major conference and good academics, it is Duke, Vandy, Wake, and UVA. UNC does not belong in that group.

No, but UNC tries to convince people that they are a real academic school. It isn't and to answer the OP's question, I'll restate the answer. UNC law is ok, not great. It won't hurt you, but it won't help you.

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pherc (Nov 11, 2014 - 11:15 am)

Wow gator, you feel really passionately about this. Regardless of your own opinion, many would disagree with you as to the reputation of the University itself. It has a very well respected undergrad and many very well regarded graduate schools. It is certainly up there with Wake at the very least.

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 11:28 am)

Agree, and the reputation is what it is.

It isn't T-14, USNews has Alabama ahead of it. And no, Hunton, Bradley, K&S or McGuire aren't itching to hire UNC grads, so it doesn't have a solid reputation in the South.

You can disagree with me, but it doesn't change facts. UNC is a trap school.

Sorry to offend all the Tarholes here, but it isn't Dook. And for the record, I hate both schools.

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tdkerabatsos (Nov 11, 2014 - 12:11 pm)

Your hatred is possibly clouding your judgment. I grew up in NC and have lived all over the South, so I have a frame of reference (for all I know, you may have a similar background). UNC isn't Duke, but in terms of undergrad it's on par with UVA and Vandy and a clear step up from Wake. Easily the second best school in the Carolinas after Duke. It's every bit as hard to get admitted to UNC from out of state as it is to get admitted to UVA out of state. It's a very good school and a degree from there is something to proud of, regardless of some recent embarrassments in the African Studies department.

In terms of LAW SCHOOL, though, I completely agree that Duke, UVA, and Vandy are significantly better and have much greater national and regional pull.

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 12:17 pm)

So you are the person whose cloud is a bit biased.

No one cares about UNC. It isn't on par with UVA or Vandy (was this a joke?), or Duke. In undergrad, or especially in law school.

No one in Richmond cares about UNC. No one in Atlanta cares about UNC.

Sorry to hurt your feelings.

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tdkerabatsos (Nov 11, 2014 - 12:19 pm)

You didn't hurt my feelings, I didn't go to any of these schools. UG or LS. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, as am I. I've lived in Atlanta and a UNC degree is pretty well respected there. Richmond, wouldn't know (and who honestly cares)?

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 1:23 pm)

Carmax, Capital One, State Government of the wealthiest state in the USA,

But yeah, you are right, no one cares about Hunton or McGuire.

I could make an argument that UNC is the the most overrated college in the US, unless Michigan is still a part of the US. It is. Well, UNC still has Tarhole basketball, a terrible football team and jerk-off graduates.

Michigan doesn't have a good football or basketball team anymore? UNC is safe.

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tdkerabatsos (Nov 11, 2014 - 1:54 pm)

Pretty aggressive responses here, Gator. Glad to learn that Richmond has two Biglaw firms and two Fortune 500s. Sounds like a fantastic place to live.

You seem like you REALLY hate UNC and you've commented that you also hate Duke. Are you by chance an NCSU grad?

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 2:16 pm)

Of course not, I'm not white trash....at least Richmond has two large firms. North Carolina has Moore and Van Allen? Anything else?

edit- Does Calwader still have an office in Charlotte?

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tdkerabatsos (Nov 11, 2014 - 2:37 pm)

Yes, Cadwalader is still in Charlotte.

WCSR has about 550 lawyers (many more than MVA). I'll concede that these are both smaller than HW and MW.

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 2:46 pm)

Aren't they based in Columbia, South Carolina?

I'll stop being a dick, I have a buddy that is an equity partner at WCSR. Good firm, but NC is a legal wasteland.

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tdkerabatsos (Nov 11, 2014 - 2:49 pm)

Based in Winston-Salem.

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gator (Nov 11, 2014 - 2:55 pm)

Seems midlaw at best, if I was forced to work there, I'd move to Charleston.

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jackiechiles (Nov 11, 2014 - 1:54 pm)

Nobody in Atlanta cares about UVA.

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kippi (Nov 18, 2014 - 7:03 am)

In 2006 I got into UNC undergrad and was rejected outright by UVA and Vandy. Let's quit pretending UNC is some powerhouse.

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tdkerabatsos (Nov 18, 2014 - 2:08 pm)

It's not a powerhouse, but it's a Top 5 public university. Not Harvard, but nothing to be ashamed of if you go there.

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rainsofcastamere (Nov 11, 2014 - 1:14 pm)

Why do you hate both schools?

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pherc (Nov 11, 2014 - 11:31 am)

I wasn't really speaking to the law school, although again I'd certainly put it up there with Wake Law, for the little that is worth.

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mountainhawk11 (Nov 11, 2014 - 2:58 pm)

When did this board turn into Auto Admit?

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barnone (Nov 12, 2014 - 3:03 am)

Pretty obvious Gator is a UVA grad. In state of course, which means he is super proud of it (out-of-state students generally don't act this way).

He's correct that UNC is not a national school, but it is a very solid choice for someone looking to settle in the Southeast, particularly if he/she can minimize debt.

Duke isn't a part of the discussion because, though a fine school, it's not a Southern school.

jackiechiles, you are wrong. UVA grads do very, very well in Hotlanta.

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3rdamendmentscholar (Nov 12, 2014 - 7:27 am)

UNC and UVA are both great undergraduate colleges and fine law schools located in fun southern college towns. Why waste energy arguing about which one is better?

That said, Barnone, your experience pretty much squares with my experience with UVA folks. The ones that I know who are from New York, Illinois, Michigan, etc. are proud of their school and support it (rightfully so!), but aren't assholes about it. The ones I know from Richmond or especially small towns tend to be really obnoxious, snobby, and look down on anyone who wasn't "fortunate" enough to attend Mr. Jefferson's panacea. The funny thing, of course, is that Virginia Tech grads make more money both right after graduation and 10 years out. The look on faces when you bring that up is priceless. No, I'm not a Tech grad. But it's still priceless.

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gator (Nov 12, 2014 - 7:48 am)

I'm from Ohio, grew up outside Cleveland.

Ohio has crappy schools pretty much up and down the board. Although Ohio State is getting better now that they got rid of the automatic Columbus campus admissions. In the 80's/early 90's it was a disaster with extreme racial problems.

Per capita Virginia has arguably the best public college system, with UVA, W&M, GMU, and JMU leading the way, with VPI in tech/engineering.

And the idea that VPI grads make more money than UVA grads is ludicrous. How many VPI grads are members of CCV, WOCC, Richmond CC, and live south of Patterson as opposed to UVA grads?

Making a factual statement without backing it up is making a false statement. 3rdamendmentscholar is wrong. Everything I've said is right. UNClaw is not a national school. UVAlaw is. If you want BIGLAW outside of North Carolina there is no comparison. Besides Wachtell (which accepts resume drops) every 100 firm does OCI at UVA, plus it is next to Darden on North Grounds.


-edit, one more thing about VPI. Not sure if this means much but out of my class of around 375, there wasn't a single VPI undergrad. There were probably about 40 UVA, around a dozen of Duke and UNC each and those were by far the 3 biggest feeders. Likely the next in line was around 6 from the usual suspects (Harvard, Dartmouth, Princeton, Chicago, Michigan, etc.). Pretty crazy when you consider how large VPI undergrad is and they still didn't feed a single graduate into the law school. I guess they are too busy making lots of money, or unemployed.

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3rdamendmentscholar (Nov 12, 2014 - 7:59 am)

http://www.richmondbizsense.com/2009/07/23/hokies-edge-wahoos-in-graduates’-starting-salaries/

(Cue attack on survey's methodology/references to snooty country clubs that no one else cares about)

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gator (Nov 12, 2014 - 8:01 am)

I'm sure that survey is very scientific. and all of the UVA grads making BIGLAW money in NYC participate heavily.

Is that cue good enough for you? I suppose you also believe 20% of college women are raped because you know, survey.

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3rdamendmentscholar (Nov 12, 2014 - 8:07 am)

You seem like an insecure person. Good day.

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gator (Nov 12, 2014 - 12:37 pm)

I seem like a rational person that presents facts, people run away. Go away little doggy.

And no, architecture (for rains of castamere, Hear me Roar) is one of the worst majors for getting a job.

We have friends that have a daughter with an architecture at Cal-Poly SLO. Their entire class is unemployed. Who hires architects these days? This isn't the Brady Bunch.

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rainsofcastamere (Nov 12, 2014 - 12:53 pm)

Generally, anyone building a residential or commercial building is hiring an architect as part of the process. I have never heard of Cal-Poly-SLO so I have no idea if the market for architects or that particular school is the problem.

But for the sake of argument, forget architecture. Why would an engineering graduate go to law school for three years, incurring six figure debt without any guarantee of a job that can pay that debt off, when he could go ahead and start making (good) money as an engineer-in-training and eventually be a PE? I know that certain types of engineers end up in patent law, but otherwise, law school seems unnecessary to maximize the value of engineering degree. To me, that somewhat explains the lack of Hokies at UVA Law.

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gator (Nov 12, 2014 - 1:22 pm)

"Why would an engineering graduate go to law school for three years, incurring six figure debt without any guarantee of a job that can pay that debt off"

Because STEM jobs are very hard to come by, even for graduates from top schools. VPI isn't a top school. It is good, not great. MIT is great, CalTech is great, Georgia Tech is very good. VPI is an ok school with a huge A&S program. Not all Hokies are engineers by a long shot. And I can assure you the political science degree from VPI means nothing compared to that from UVA.

I'm not sure either degree is worth much. But VPI is not a straight line into riches, if it was, any idiot would go there, and some (Michael Vick?) actually do.

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lennaykekuabiglawjob (Nov 20, 2014 - 7:08 pm)

UVA: University of Virgins Assaulted

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rainsofcastamere (Nov 12, 2014 - 9:44 am)

These stats actually do not surprise me at all. Realistically, if you have an engineering degree, or architecture, or computer science, or something along those lines, why on earth would you ever go to law school? Especially in 2014, knowing how risky it is to attend anywhere outside the T6?

Edit: by "these stats" I mean the UG backgrounds of UVA Law students.

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lawsmith (Nov 12, 2014 - 7:14 am)

2008 UNC law grad.

When I was there OCIs were decent. Actually atlanta is an available market with top 25 grades. So is DC. It does have a solid reputation in NC; biglaw in charlotte and raleigh are available to top 33.

If you are outside the top 33 your options are far more limited and you are looking at government or small law jobs in NC along with the Campbell, Wake Forest, NCCU, charlotte and elon grads. If you fall into that category, good luck. The small law market in NC is pretty awful right now and you'll likely end up in a toilet law sweatshop or doing doc review in charlotte.

In short, not a bad school. Solid regional rep but need at least top 33 grades to have a chance at a decent job.

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mountainhawk11 (Nov 12, 2014 - 3:11 pm)

I practice in NC, and Lawsmith is pretty spot on. UNC is fine, especially if you want to stay in NC, but it's no guarantee of success. Those who do very well can get Charlotte/Raleigh Biglaw (Womble, MVA, McGuire, K&L, Hunton, Troutman, Alston, etc.) or any number of strong mid-sized firms (Smith Anderson, Robinson Bradshaw, Brooks Pierce, Parker Poe, Nexsen Pruet, etc.). They may also have options in Atlanta or DC, as noted above. The middle of the pack will be fighting (hard) with Wake and Campbell grads for terrible PI/ID jobs in Raleigh, with an outside shot at Biglaw, boutique, or government if connections exist. The bottom will be fighting with Elon and Charlotte grads for document review/scraps. Small law is dying fast in this state.

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lennaykekuabiglawjob (Apr 15, 2017 - 10:39 pm)

Gator: you're an insecure f*cktard. And Thomas Jefferson raped his slaves. Enjoy your sh1tty life in a disgusting, crime-ridden city.

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3lol (Apr 19, 2017 - 10:01 am)

I don't think gator is around anymore, but you have a gift for holding the sentiment for 3 years.

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hairypalms (Apr 16, 2017 - 10:34 am)

UNC Law I would rate as solid state flagship university with a quality law school. It has a nice regional reputation, not just in NC. I'm from the northeast, and I have had 2 colleagues from UNC Law. You could do a lot wrose than this school. I would stay clear of NCCU although I do have a colleague that went there during night school who had a job at a large company in the area.

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rainsofcastamere (Apr 18, 2017 - 11:32 pm)

NCCU is a bad bet for 95% of those who go there. That said, it is super cheap and did produce a recent governor.

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triplesix (Apr 19, 2017 - 12:18 pm)

Great thread getting revived. UNC is a fine school and is most definitely a trap. However, they charge half the price for instate students hence your regular UNC grad is in much better position than a large majority of T1 idiots with 100k+ in loans.

You can pay your loans on 50-70K salary if they are only 60-80K, you can't have a normal life on such income with 100k plus in loans and "prefftige" of better ranked school really does not pay the bills.

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