Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Mckinsey

I hope this doesn't come off as a flame, or as me being a je GeorgeCostanza04/04/11
Give me a throwaway email address. I know people who work in sarongsuzy12/12/16
- they recruit heavily from the Ivies. I think this is basic jdjoe04/04/11
Thanks for the info... I'm still not even sure if I'll put i GeorgeCostanza04/04/11
.... tkjdf4sbe04/04/11
Did you swoosh? gowcod04/04/11
Thanks for the reply... out of curiosity, what level school GeorgeCostanza04/04/11
.... tkjdf4sbe05/09/11
McKinsey is indeed 80 hours on the road per week. But you do malphabet04/04/11
Chelsea Clinton - daughter of former U.S. President Bill Cli marlon05/09/11
Yup, Marlon, with all her immense "networking" through her f malphabet05/15/11
Well my delusions of grandeur are over; I got a polite note GeorgeCostanza05/09/11
Hey GeorgeCostanza, isn't it funny how the rejection process TheImmigrant05/09/11
this is true gowcod05/09/11
Credited. karlfarbman02/19/16
This is the greatest post in the history of this website. vohod04/15/17
Good point, at least OP took a shot at it. digitalserf05/09/11
Sorry to hear about your loss, OP. Seriously, though, I a jdjoe05/10/11
Actually half of Harvard goes into things way more profitabl malphabet05/15/11
What is W? Guest05/24/12
Thanks for the comments guys, but I think you are being a li GeorgeCostanza05/10/11
Sux, dude. Only hope is to doctor up an IP assignment at you AlLordpwnsU05/10/11
And that was just a joke by the way. AlLordpwnsU05/10/11
> I make $25,000 a year, and don't have a girlfriend on a c frugal_and_puzzled05/10/11
George, You know how to work hard. You'll figure it out. frugal_and_puzzled05/10/11
Thanks for the message. No, I'm not done with the PhD yet; GeorgeCostanza05/11/11
George: I'm sorry to hear about your parents being ill. Th JackBlack05/14/11
Yeah, sorry about your parents. When it rains, it pours. Hop TTTheaven05/14/11
Thanks for the messages guys. GeorgeCostanza05/15/11
bump TheImmigrant03/14/12
Why can't they fix the time stamps/dates on these fucking po marlon03/14/12
Its from last year. I'm still pissed about it. GeorgeCostanza03/14/12
It's a year past but I have to ask, did you only apply to Mc HCDevid03/14/12
HCDevid- Thanks for the reply. I only applied to the GeorgeCostanza03/15/12
Good luck with the new posting. I'm not an expert on acad HCDevid03/15/12
One other tip. It helps significantly if you're willing to w HCDevid03/15/12
Man, people like you make it worth running this site. If you gowcod03/15/12
Thanks HCDevid03/16/12
HCDevid, if anyone gives you shit, just let me know. I'm 6'9 TheImmigrant03/15/12
Lie. blee04/26/12
Thanks for the info, great stuff. A couple other questi GeorgeCostanza03/15/12
1. Went with banking mainly for the money. The additional ex HCDevid03/16/12
Thanks again for the info. I'll post a link in a couple of GeorgeCostanza03/16/12
double post theimmigrant04/26/12
Lie. blee04/26/12
triple post theimmigrant05/23/12
A long time ago I worked at MIT in the career services offic korlash05/24/12
Yeah, the process is pretty brutal, but it might be for the georgecostanza05/24/12
Lol George thought he was a special snowflake. What a surpri dovesoap06/06/12
I'm glad to hear that nobody on this board has ever suffered georgecostanza06/06/12
It was your reaction I found amusing. Like you somehow dese dovesoap06/06/12
You have no idea what you're talking about. georgecostanza06/06/12
.... tkjdf4sbe08/17/13
There is a ton of important history in this thread. eject03/19/13
Funny [as stated by wily] that immigrant once was allowed to sammalone08/17/13
Just a note to say that this thread has been nominated as on doublefriedchicken12/12/16
Congrat to this thread! imoothereforeim12/12/16
I wonder how georgecostanza is doing now?.... Hopefully w anonattempt12/12/16

GeorgeCostanza (Apr 4, 2011 - 12:39 pm)

I hope this doesn't come off as a flame, or as me being a jerk or something, but I'm considering putting in an application at Mckinsey working in their health care stuff (specifically applying to a program they have for PhD grads)... I'm hoping somebody here knows something about them.

Specifically:
1. I don't have an Ivy background, although they claim the recruit at my current public school... am I wasting my time?
2. Is there any sort of work life balance at this place, or are you basically a slave?

Thanks in advance if anybody has friends there and can give me any sort of info.

Reply Like (0)
sarongsuzy (Dec 12, 2016 - 1:12 pm)

Give me a throwaway email address. I know people who work in McKinsey health care.

Reply Like (0)
jdjoe (Apr 4, 2011 - 1:41 pm)

- they recruit heavily from the Ivies. I think this is basically because many, many people can do the kind of work there, so they need some kind of arbitrary filtering process (having an Ivy pedigree also maintains the org's status, and it can work as a proxy for work ethic... sometimes)
- on to work: plan on traveling 4-5 days of the week, and working ur balls off (80 hrs? 100 hrs). from what i gather, it is expected to work for a few years and then to move to something else. Accordingly, cohorts are referred to by their hiring years, similarly to college or high school, although this refers to entrance to the program.
- unless ur a URM, it will be uber difficult to make it, especially from a public school. I don't think it matters how smart you are. this comes of particularly in interviews, where they are looking more for a kind of "person," IMHO, and the questions often are weird things like, "how many pencils could be made from the forests in california?" I think they are meant to keep you on ur toes and to see how you respond to pressure. In these instances, entitlement and bravado matter, which is a particularly good weeding mechanism for the poors and working class kids.
- once you make it to Mckinsey, it works as a badge of honor, and it will take you places. I have heard that harvard biz grads are typically the three "m's": mormons, military, and mckinsey. so 2 yrs of ur life might not be a bad thing.

good luck in the rat race. even if u win, though, ur still a rat!

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (Apr 4, 2011 - 2:25 pm)

Thanks for the info... I'm still not even sure if I'll put in for it. I just talked to a recruiter at a career fair I wasn't even looking for a job at, and she was telling me about the fantastic business training I would get there. My long term goals involve my own startup or working in VC, and she told me that they have a program tailored to Phd graduates, so it didn't sound like a bad idea... but I have better things to do than submit a resume to be tossed in the garbage if they aren't interested in anybody besides Harvard or MIT grads.

Reply Like (0)
tkjdf4sbe (Apr 4, 2011 - 2:42 pm)

....

Reply Like (0)
gowcod (Apr 4, 2011 - 3:18 pm)

Did you swoosh?

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (Apr 4, 2011 - 7:03 pm)

Thanks for the reply... out of curiosity, what level school did you go to? Big state? Non-Ivy elite private? I'm just trying to gauge what they are realistically looking at...

Reply Like (0)
tkjdf4sbe (May 9, 2011 - 10:13 pm)

....

Reply Like (0)
malphabet (Apr 4, 2011 - 5:21 pm)

McKinsey is indeed 80 hours on the road per week. But you do it 2-4 years, and at the end:
The following is a list of notable current and former employees of McKinsey & Company, a management consulting firm founded in 1926.
[edit] Business

Vikram Akula - CEO and founder of SKS Microfinance
Delphine Arnault - director of LVMH
Massimo Arrighi - ex-CEO of Eurizon
Sir John Banham - chairman of Whitbread and British business man
Bengt Baron - Gold medalist at the 1980 Summer Olympics, CEO and president of Absolut Vodka
Wolfgang Bernhard - chairman of Volkswagen
John Birt, Baron Birt - director-general of the BBC (1992–2000)
Marvin Bower - managing director of McKinsey & Company (1950–67)
Robert N Brisco - CEO, Internet Brands
Massimo Capuano - CEO of Borsa Italiana, chairman of the World Federation of Exchanges
Ronald Cohen - founder of Apax Partners
Humphrey Cobbold - former chairman of Fish4
John Cook [disambiguation needed] - former EVP of Operations of Kellogg Company (1999–2001)
Patrick Cox - former chairman of NBC Europe
Richard Currie - company director
Vittorio Colao - CEO of Vodafone
Alison Davis- Managing Partner of Belvedere Capital
Ian Davis - former managing director of McKinsey & Company
Julian Day - chairman and CEO of RadioShack and former chairman and CEO of Kmart
Bristol Decker - Actress and consultant
Stephen DeFalco - president and CEO of MDS Inc.
Colin Dyer - CEO of Jones Lang LaSalle
John Elliott - Australian businessman
Carolyn Fairbairn - BBC executive
George l. (Chuck) Farr - vice chairman at American Express Company
Matteo Fedeli - CEO of McFedels & Company S.p.A.
Ricardo Ferreira - Managing Partner of A Vida é Bela (www.avidaebela.com.br) in Brazil
Tom Flocco - president and CEO of Jim Beam brands
Russell P. Fradin - chairman and CEO of Hewitt Associates
William Foote - chairman and CEO of USG Corporation
Richard N. Foster - managing partner of Foster Health Partners and author
Lee French - president and COO of Kaplan, Inc.
Ashu Garg - Partner, Foundation Capital
Tom Gentile - President and CEO of GE Consumer Finance
Jeff George, CEO of Sandoz International GmbH
Mike George - president and CEO of QVC Inc.
Louis V. Gerstner, Jr. - former chairman and CEO of IBM and chairman of The Carlyle Group
George N. Gillett, Jr. - Vail, Colorado-based businessman and owner of the Montreal Canadiens and England's Liverpool Football Club
Harvey Golub - chairman of Campbell Soup Company
James P. Gorman - co-president of Morgan Stanley
Mario Greco - CEO of Zurich Global Life
Stephen Green (banker) - chairman of HSBC
Rajat Gupta - managing director of McKinsey & Company (1994–2003) and corporate director
Bob Haas - chairman of Levi Strauss & Co.
John Hagel - author, consultant
Kristof Hagerman - CEO of Corel Corporation
Steve Hasker - president, media products, The Nielsen Company
Bruce A. Henderson - chairman and CEO of Imation
Randall Hogan III - chairman and CEO of Pentair
Betsy Holden - former co-CEO of Kraft Foods, later joined McKinsey as a senior advisor
Eric Janvier - co-founder, Schlumberger Business Consulting
Jon Katzenbach - founder of Katzenbach Partners LLC
Susanne Klatten - Germany's richest woman
Marius Kloppers - CEO of BHP Billiton
Anil Kumar - former senior partner of McKinsey & Company
Mark Leiter - President, Global Practices & Consulting Services, The Nielsen Company
Matthew Le Merle - Chairman of the Advisory Board of Shanshan Group and Yurun Group
Helge Lund - CEO of StatoilHydro
James Paul Manzi - chairman and CEO of Lotus Development Corporation
John C. Malone - chairman of Liberty Media, CEO of Discovery Holding Company
James McNerney - chairman and CEO of Boeing
Ronald O'Hanley - vice chairman of Mellon Financial Corporation
Kenichi Ohmae - corporate strategist
Azran Osman Rani - CEO of AirAsia X
Helmut Panke - former chairman and CEO of BMW AG
Corrado Passera - CEO of Intesa Sanpaolo
Roger Parry - chairman and CEO of Clear Channel International
Alessandro Profumo - ex-CEO of UniCredit
Phil Purcell - former chairman and CEO of Morgan Stanley
Peter Sands - CEO of Standard Chartered Bank
Silvio Scaglia - Founder of Fastweb, 13th richest man in Italy according to Forbes
Paolo Scaroni - CEO, Eni - ex-CEO, Enel
Jonathan I. Schwartz - CEO of Sun Microsystems
Kevin W. Sharer - chairman and CEO of Amgen Inc.
Christopher A. Sinclair - former chairman and CEO of PepsiCo
Jeff Skilling - former CEO of Enron
Jonathan Spector - CEO of The Conference Board
Ken Stevens - former president of Taco Bell, CEO of Express and CFO of Limited Brands
Gerald L. Storch - chairman and CEO of Toys "R" Us
Tidjane Thiam - managing director of Aviva International
Evan Thornley - co-founder of LookSmart
Pamela Thomas-Graham - group president of Liz Claiborne Inc. and former president and CEO of CNBC
Peter Thum - founder, Ethos Water, and social entrepreneur
Mark R. Weldon - CEO of the New Zealand Stock Exchange (NZX) and former Olympian
Miles D. White - chairman and CEO of Abbott Laboratories
Michael Wolf - former president and COO of MTV Networks
Robert Worcester - founder of MORI
Peter Wuffli - former CEO of UBS AG
Klaus Zumwinkel - ex-chairman of Deutsche Post

[edit] Politics and public service

R. Corey Booth - Chief Information Officer of the SEC
Ryan Brumberg - U.S. Congressional candidate
Jim Coutts - Canadian Prime Ministerial advisor (1963–66, 1975–81)
Božidar Đelić - Serbian Minister of Economy and Finance (2001–2003), vice-president of the Government of Serbia (2007–present)
Roger W. Ferguson, Jr. - vice chairman of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System (2001–2006), CEO of TIAA-CREF
William Hague - Foreign Secretary of the United Kingdom (2010-present), member of the British Parliament (1989–present); leader of the Conservative Party (1997–2001)
Wendell E. Hulcher - Mayor of Ann Arbor (1965–69)
Reed Hundt - chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (1993–1997)
Greg Hunt - Member of the Australian House of Representatives (2001–present)
Radovan Jelašić - governor of the National Bank of Serbia
Bobby Jindal - Governor of the State of Louisiana (2008–present); member of the U.S. House of Representatives (2004–2008)
Nancy Killefer - Assistant Secretary for Management, CFO, and COO at the United States Department of the Treasury (1997–2000)
John D. Macomber - President of the Export-Import Bank of the United States (1989–1992)
Karen Mills - venture capitalist, Administrator designate of the Small Business Administration (SBA)
Toshimitsu Motegi - member of the House of Representatives of Japan(1993–present); State Minister in Charge of Financial Services(2007–2008)
Arthur Mutambara - Zimbabwean politician
Naheed Nenshi - Mayor of Calgary (2010-present)
Peter Orszag - economist, Barack Obama's OMB director designate, former CBO director, formerly of the Brookings Institution
Svein Harald Řygard - Norwegian Ministry of Finance, State Secretary (1990–1994); Governor Central Bank of Iceland (Sedlabanki Islands) (2009-)
Susan E. Rice - United States Ambassador to the United Nations (2009–Present), United States Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs (1997–2001), formerly of the Brookings Institution
Stuart Shilson - Assistant Private Secretary to the Queen in the Royal Household of the Sovereign of the United Kingdom
John Stoner - Senior Military Advisor to Vice President Al Gore (1996–1998)
Van Taylor - U.S. Congressional candidate
Pieter Winsemius - Dutch Minister of Housing, Spatial Planning and the Environment (1982–1986, 2006–2007)

[edit] Other

T. J. Allard - actor
Paul Antony - chief medical officer of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America
Martin Neil Baily - economist
Christopher A. Bartlett - professor emeritus at Harvard Business School
Eric Beinhocker - author
Heather Bell - director of international strategy, University of Oxford
Esther Brimmer - academic
Sylvia Mathews Burwell - president of the Global Development Program of the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation
Chelsea Clinton - daughter of former U.S. President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
James C. Collins - academic, author Good to Great
Davide D. - CEO of italian company
Joseph Daniels - president and CEO of the World Trade Center Memorial Foundation
Howard Davies - director of the London School of Economics, former chairman of the British Financial Services Authority
Bill Drayton - social entrepreneur
Shuman Ghosemajumder - technologist
Chandra Gnanasambandam, a.k.a, Chandra G - Indian pop artist
Chris Goodall - Green Party politician and environmental campaigner
Mohsin Hamid - novelist
Tom Hayhoe - healthcare director, former politician, and offshore racing sailor
Fred Hilmer - Australian academic
Kenneth E. Iverson - designer of the APL and J programming languages and Turing laureate
Yul Kwon - winner of Survivor: Cook Islands
Phil Lapsley - electrical engineer
Georgia Lee - filmmaker
Kyriakos Mitsotakis - Greek MP
Thomas J. Peters - author
Chris Philp - chairman of the Bow Group (2004–05)
Alejandro Plaz - founder of Súmate
James Twining - novelist
Adair Turner, Baron Turner of Ecchinswell - academic, businessman
Luis Ubińas - president of the Ford Foundation
Jerome Vascallero - vice chancellor of Brown University

Reply Like (0)
marlon (May 9, 2011 - 10:09 pm)

Chelsea Clinton - daughter of former U.S. President Bill Clinton and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton
===

ohmygod, I am in awe, how could I ever compare...a fresh Tampax, perhaps?

Reply Like (0)
malphabet (May 15, 2011 - 10:27 pm)

Yup, Marlon, with all her immense "networking" through her family, this is what she chose.

That alone ought to tell you something.

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (May 9, 2011 - 6:20 pm)

Well my delusions of grandeur are over; I got a polite note from them today letting me know that I should consider putting a shot gun up my ass and pulling the trigger... I didn't even get to the finalists to get into their advanced degree program. So yeah, apparently I suck.

I think the worst thing about their process is that they asked for so much information about you (my entire CV, not resume, test scores (ACT and GRE), information in your cover letter, application essay, and transcripts) that it feels like they took a complete view of everything I've accomplished in my life and said "pass". It would almost be better if they just had preliminary information so that I could rationalize it away as them having a shitty hiring process. But no, these guys looked at me and took judgement on all of me and decided that I'm a disgrace.

Reply Like (0)
TheImmigrant (May 9, 2011 - 7:44 pm)

Hey GeorgeCostanza, isn't it funny how the rejection process basically makes you more of a loser than someone who never even tried? Think about it. 95% of your high school graduating class probably have no idea what McKinsey is. The guy who wore wifebeaters, got in fights, and is now a truck driver making 4-figures a week, infinitely better off than so many lawyers.... This guy has NO FUCKING IDEA what McKinsey is or what they do, and he's better off for it. Hell, the IBM commercials that come on during football games probably confuse the fuck out of him.

When I think of the word "loser", I don't think of the guy making my pizza who has a DWI and stays at his uncle's. I think of the naive striver who has suffered years of ignominious mediocrity. Ignominy that never ends, kills your spirit and physically shrinks your penis. Striving with no success to sustain you is so unbelievably precarious. Throwing up your hands and falling asleep on the fucking recliner while watching UFC is like heaven in comparison. Hat's off to you. Remember, you will always be better than liberal arts majors - ESPECIALLY while you're surfing the internet.

Reply Like (1)
gowcod (May 9, 2011 - 9:05 pm)

this is true

Reply Like (0)
karlfarbman (Feb 19, 2016 - 1:07 pm)

Credited.

Reply Like (0)
vohod (Apr 15, 2017 - 10:33 pm)

This is the greatest post in the history of this website.

Reply Like (0)
digitalserf (May 9, 2011 - 9:42 pm)

Good point, at least OP took a shot at it.

Reply Like (0)
jdjoe (May 10, 2011 - 11:53 am)

Sorry to hear about your loss, OP.

Seriously, though, I ain't surprised. This is where the URM advantage comes in handily, as does the ORM (over-represented majority) advantage (read: rich white kids).

From what I hear even half of Harvard students never get into McKinsey, so it's hard to make it in.

You wouldn't call half of Harvard College losers, would you?

Reply Like (0)
malphabet (May 15, 2011 - 10:29 pm)

Actually half of Harvard goes into things way more profitable than McKinsey. McKinsey is kind of the safety choice of Harvard (or was.) If you went into consulting you weren't smart enough to get into a hedge fund.


But that trickles down quickly, with McKinsey being the #1 choice of nearly every school in the top 10 not H/S/W

Reply Like (0)
Guest (May 24, 2012 - 8:29 pm)

What is W?

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (May 10, 2011 - 6:28 pm)

Thanks for the comments guys, but I think you are being a little too nice. First, this whole thing wasn't "boohoo" I didn't get a job... this was a rejection in the first of what are probably 5 rounds, which, even if they are taking Harvard grads, still sucks.

To the guy who said I was still better than a liberal arts grad... I seriously doubt it at this point. If you don't know, I'm currently a Ph.D. student in biomedical engineering. I make $25,000 a year, and don't have a girlfriend on a campus full of hot coeds. I work constantly, and on some of the hardest, most frustrating shit you can imagine. So basically I'm an indentured servant, who gets little to no credit for any of the things I accomplish.

To top it off, I've come to the conclusion, career-wise, that I'm f*7ked. I went into this field because 1. I wanted to help people, and 2. Everybody was screaming up and down that there are huge career prospects in it (72% increase in jobs over the next decade! #1 job for the future) etc. I bought it all hook, line and sinker. After I finished my Master's degree, my advisor told me to stay on for a Ph.D.... I researched it, and it seemed like that was the smart move so I did so.

Well, over the last couple of weeks I've come across a lot of info that Universities are using that increasing 72% b.s., and are on track to graduate twice as many BMEs as there are projected jobs... and this is a small field (around 12,000 nation wide). Add to that most research is getting outsourced, and academia is, in every definition of the phrase, a pyramid scheme. So basically, all of the hard work, hard classes etc., were for a field where future demand is likely going to be crap.

So yeah, I don't know how anybody could think I'm "better" than anybody else. If anything, I'm worse... at least the liberal arts majors got to live it up for awhile. How many English major guys never see an American girl throughout the course of a semester? I would say that I'm the biggest idiot of all... I got sucked straight into the academic pyramid scheme, the school has used up my hard work and spit me out, and I've got nothing to show for it. So, not exactly bragging rights material...

Reply Like (0)
AlLordpwnsU (May 10, 2011 - 9:23 pm)

Sux, dude. Only hope is to doctor up an IP assignment at your next job so that you don't assign your rights in the IP you contribute to the employer, then hope like hell they cook up something boss and you still have some claim to title in it.

Reply Like (0)
AlLordpwnsU (May 10, 2011 - 9:24 pm)

And that was just a joke by the way.

Reply Like (0)
frugal_and_puzzled (May 10, 2011 - 10:18 pm)

> I make $25,000 a year, and don't have a girlfriend on a campus full of hot coeds.

Do you try?

> . How many English major guys never see an American girl throughout the course of a semester?

Are you saying it's all foreign students?
Are they all Asian or Indian, for example?
You're not interested in dating them?

Reply Like (0)
frugal_and_puzzled (May 10, 2011 - 10:19 pm)

George,
You know how to work hard.
You'll figure it out.
Are you done with your PhD yet?
Focus on that for now.

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (May 11, 2011 - 10:19 pm)

Thanks for the message. No, I'm not done with the PhD yet; hopefully Spring of next year. Hopefully I will figure it out... I was pretty down when I posted this the last couple of days, not really because of getting rejected, but illnesses my parents are going through right now. Seeing them get really sick kind of messes up my thinking, and I started trying to plan (like I always do to deal with problems) the rest of my life out so that when that happens to me someday, I'll be able to look back and say, "at least I accomplished that". So yeah, JDUers should be trashing me right now, and tell me "LOL, YOU DIDN'T KNOW LIFE SUCKS?!!! WHAT A FU*&KING IDIOT!!!". Reading this back kind of makes me think I'm a little messed up at this point. Awesome.

Reply Like (0)
JackBlack (May 14, 2011 - 3:46 pm)

George: I'm sorry to hear about your parents being ill. That is a difficult thing to deal with. Although you feel like you have not accomplished anything, I am sure that your parents do not see you that way. You sound like an intelligent, caring person who is trying to find their way in a crappy economy.

I'm not going to trash you for getting a PhD. It's better than a J.D.

Reply Like (0)
TTTheaven (May 14, 2011 - 3:51 pm)

Yeah, sorry about your parents. When it rains, it pours. Hopefully things will get better in the near future.

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (May 15, 2011 - 3:17 pm)

Thanks for the messages guys.

Reply Like (0)
TheImmigrant (Mar 14, 2012 - 6:40 pm)

bump

Reply Like (0)
marlon (Mar 14, 2012 - 9:05 pm)

Why can't they fix the time stamps/dates on these fucking posts? It would be
nice to know what fucking year this thread is from, not for nothing.

How hard can it be? two digits, just stick 'em in there, Admin.

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (Mar 14, 2012 - 9:28 pm)

Its from last year. I'm still pissed about it.

Reply Like (0)
HCDevid (Mar 14, 2012 - 10:32 pm)

It's a year past but I have to ask, did you only apply to McKinsey? At that level of competition it's fundamentally a numbers game.

If you want to do generalist strategy consulting, then look at Bain/BCG, they're in the same tier as McKinsey. Look at boutiques as well.

If you're familiar with healthcare, one of my friends is hiring for his biotech consulting/VC firm. You'd be a bit older than the norm, but I can refer you if you're interested in that space.

Reply Like (0)
GeorgeCostanza (Mar 15, 2012 - 12:18 am)

HCDevid-

Thanks for the reply.

I only applied to the McKinsey APD program. I didn't really submit any other applications for consulting gigs, as I wasn't totally sold on it. I was mainly interested in McKinsey because they had such a well laid out map of how you go from a Ph.D. to consulting.

Its interesting you mentioned biotech consulting and VC, as that was the end goal of me trying to go somewhere like McKinsey. I have a solid biotech background with my Ph.D., but very limited business experience. Consulting seems like a better place to pick that up rather than business school.

I don't want to put myself down or anything, but from everything I've seen about VC, it seems absolutely brutal getting anything in there... even worse than McKinsey/BCG, so I haven't even bothered applying to those firms yet. Do you have any ideas about how to get into that?

I recently accepted a post-doc starting sometime this summer at an elite school in a biotech hub, so right now I'm planning on going there and networking like crazy. From what I've heard, getting into the big consulting firms is a lot easier as a post-doc at this school, compared to a Ph.D. at a State school, so I'm hopeful this will open up some more doors for me. The post-doc will also give me a chance to either figure out if my current disgust with the way University science is done is lab/institution specific or if its something that is going to prohibit me from pursuing a career in academic science. The only downside is the terrible salary, but I'm not going to be starving and the post-doc will look solid on a resume/CV no matter what I do next.

Any thoughts you had about this would be appreciated, as you seem to be pretty knowledgeable...

Reply Like (0)
HCDevid (Mar 15, 2012 - 1:50 am)

Good luck with the new posting.

I'm not an expert on academia > consulting shifts since I just don't know that many people in academia. My personal experience with consulting is limited to an internship with one of the McK/Bain/BCG firms I did a few years back when I was an undergrad, so I know how to game the case interview system + my resume highlights, and also how the lifestyle works, but I elected to go into finance instead of staying in consulting.

If it's an elite school (Ivy-level or top state school like UMich), then the re-branding should work very well for you. As far as recruiting for either consulting/VC you are correct that it's a brutal process for either. Consulting would be the easier of the two for someone with your background, but you should start doing legwork once you arrive at your posting to cold-call and cold-email people in both industries so that when you want to make a move, your resume gets taken to the top of the pile. Recruiting is fundamentally a numbers game at this level, so you want your resume to be everywhere when you do make your move.

If your ultimate interest is VC, then you should also consider two other options off the top-of-my-head:

(1) Start-ups, most VC firms have postings for people that their portfolio companies need. A few years especially if you are aggressive about giving yourself business functions once in-place would be looked upon very favorably.

(2) Tech or Healthcare Investment Banking. I frankly don't know much about healthcare banking, but certain tech investment banks have a very start-up oriented culture and tradition of placing people into VC (mainly on the west coast). A few years back, the top groups were CS SF, GS SF, and then UBS SF and Citi Palo Alto. Qatalyst (Quattrone's bank) has shaken things up considerably and is in my view the #1 place there. GS SF is 2nd but a bit behind. The rest is the same. The lifestyle in banking is much more brutal than consulting however.

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HCDevid (Mar 15, 2012 - 1:55 am)

One other tip. It helps significantly if you're willing to work outside of the traditional NY/LA/SF destinations. If you're from the midwest for example, apply for Chicago. If you're from Philadelphia, apply for the Philly offices, etc. Competition is much lower outside of the core cities.

If you're willing to go international, I would guess that recruiting for the Hong Kong and Singapore offices is similar to investment banking in that you have to be an idiot to screw up the interview process there.

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gowcod (Mar 15, 2012 - 3:44 am)

Man, people like you make it worth running this site. If you have any problem or anyone giving you shit here, please contact me first before you decide to leave. Thanks.

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HCDevid (Mar 16, 2012 - 4:19 am)

Thanks

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TheImmigrant (Mar 15, 2012 - 10:10 am)

HCDevid, if anyone gives you shit, just let me know. I'm 6'9.

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blee (Apr 26, 2012 - 12:43 am)

Lie.

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GeorgeCostanza (Mar 15, 2012 - 10:48 pm)

Thanks for the info, great stuff.

A couple other questions:
1. Why did you go with finance over consulting? What are your estimates for the hours in each? Consulting kind of seems like the travel will suck/ you won't have a relationship outside of it. Finance seems like you'll just be working all the time.

2. I've seen some recruiting for post-docs to VC firms as "interns"... do you know anything about this? Is this a scam for expertise or something legitimate?

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HCDevid (Mar 16, 2012 - 4:24 am)

1. Went with banking mainly for the money. The additional exit ops consulting provides over banking are mainly into doing things at "real companies" so I was less interested. Hours are really group-specific, but 80-120 hours per week for banking is realistic. For consulting, 60 - 80 hours per week is about right, but there's also time in transit to the client site every week. The biggest thing about consulting is that most offices (Mckinsey less so, Bain & BCG more) are very big on avoiding weekends. The one or two days where you don't have to work and can recharge are huge psychologically.

I think a new relationship during consulting is doable as long as your SO is understanding. Banking is near impossible if the SO hasn't been with you for a significant period of time and is understanding.

2. No idea. Can you post a link? Easier to tell that way.

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GeorgeCostanza (Mar 16, 2012 - 4:41 pm)

Thanks again for the info. I'll post a link in a couple of days after I get back from a conference.

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theimmigrant (Apr 26, 2012 - 12:42 am)

double post

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blee (Apr 26, 2012 - 12:44 am)

Lie.

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theimmigrant (May 23, 2012 - 11:59 pm)

triple post

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korlash (May 24, 2012 - 3:41 pm)

A long time ago I worked at MIT in the career services office. Graduating students literally could have any job they wanted, and the most popular company for OCI? Consultant for McKinsey. The company took very few from even MIT, and their interview style was notoriously brutal. They made these kids "solve" mind-numbing issues on the fly during the interview.

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georgecostanza (May 24, 2012 - 9:11 pm)

Yeah, the process is pretty brutal, but it might be for the best anyway. A lot of those guys from MIT will go on to do a lot more helpful things for society, although maybe not quite as lucrative.

Your info I'm sure is exactly right. It makes me laugh though, as every terrible PhD program in the country right now (in many different disciplines) is advertising on their sites for "alternative careers with a PhD!" that "Management consulting (McKinsey, BCG et. al.) is a great alternative". I bet if you take your PhD from southern Alabama, dress in a nice suit and show up in NY, they'll have a job waiting for you!

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dovesoap (Jun 6, 2012 - 1:49 pm)

Lol George thought he was a special snowflake. What a surprise.

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georgecostanza (Jun 6, 2012 - 2:32 pm)

I'm glad to hear that nobody on this board has ever suffered any sort of setback in their careers. Good Lord this board has some vicious little shits on it... I get pissed about one rejection over a year ago and I'm still hearing about it.

I'm doing fine now dovesoap. Thanks for your concern.

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dovesoap (Jun 6, 2012 - 3:03 pm)

It was your reaction I found amusing. Like you somehow deserved it.

And post-doc is not "doing fine". Lol you struck out and then took what you could.

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georgecostanza (Jun 6, 2012 - 3:09 pm)

You have no idea what you're talking about.

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tkjdf4sbe (Aug 17, 2013 - 9:29 am)

....

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eject (Mar 19, 2013 - 5:21 pm)

There is a ton of important history in this thread.

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sammalone (Aug 17, 2013 - 9:06 am)

Funny [as stated by wily] that immigrant once was allowed to post in the big boy forum.

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doublefriedchicken (Dec 12, 2016 - 12:42 pm)

Just a note to say that this thread has been nominated as one of Top 10 JDU moments of the past 10 years.

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imoothereforeim (Dec 12, 2016 - 3:54 pm)

Congrat to this thread!

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anonattempt (Dec 12, 2016 - 1:56 pm)

I wonder how georgecostanza is doing now?....

Hopefully well... http://i.giphy.com/jNu6HhOlFn572.gif

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