Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

I am noticing a shortage of young lawyers

When I graduated and for several years afterwards, this area guyingorillasuit08/11/17
In my hometown, a few months back, I applied for an entry le vespucius08/11/17
GIGS - are you talking about the Bay Area? lionelhutz08/11/17
Yes. guyingorillasuit08/11/17
maybe the kids have moved to some place they can acutally af lionelhutz08/11/17
Yeah, it's tough to make it here. You have to be a little en guyingorillasuit08/11/17
So you are surprised that after 7 years of education and a b mtbislife08/11/17
You must not have been around in this board's early days. guyingorillasuit08/11/17
the title of this thread is incredibly asinine. 38% of 201 themapmaster08/12/17
They are still out there, but I believe class sizes are a bi thirdtierlaw08/12/17
It's not just the scam being exposed, but the cost of law sc downwardslope08/12/17
38% of all graduates probably don't deserve jobs. First dakotalaw08/12/17
Wew, I opened the thread expecting to see that we'd gotten a wutwutwut08/12/17
I think part of it is the cost of living issue. In the Bay cargo08/12/17
Bay Area you say? I'm a member in good standing of the CA ba gilles08/12/17
Shortage of lawyers? Where do you live? The Johnston Atoll patenttrollnj08/12/17
I'm not seeing a shortage of young kids fresh out of law sch trickydick08/12/17
I don't think there is a shortage in LA, but I notice that y 2breedbares08/13/17
My guess is you are observing a local phenomenon. The Bay Ar shitlawsf08/12/17
People are still getting scammed, but as another poster poin onehell08/12/17
Is this anything new? Come to Suffolk County and you see ol prodigy08/13/17
They are millenials. They will stay home living in their par associatex08/13/17
There is no shortage of them here in California's most popul cacrimdefense08/13/17

guyingorillasuit (Aug 11, 2017 - 9:43 pm)

When I graduated and for several years afterwards, this area was quite literally swarmed with new lawyers willing to work for free just to get the skills. When I started out, I interned for a 2-person firm for free, together with 8 other newbs. Yes, I said 8. 9 lawyers, sitting at their desks, working for free, for a 2-person firm. I knew tons of people who were unemployed or marginally employed.

Now, after the scam has been exposed, the number of grads has been cut by 50-60%. It's hard to find anyone who would work for low wages, much less work for free. I was happy as a clam to make $15 an hour when I started. Now, I offer $40 per hour, and together with a group of other solos, we can probably employ someone close to full time. Still, no one half competent or willing to learn wants to stick around. They want paid vacations, PTO, hours of personal mentoring, etc. I was handed an assignment and told to go do it.

Either circumstances have changed, or I have changed.

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vespucius (Aug 11, 2017 - 10:12 pm)

In my hometown, a few months back, I applied for an entry level position with a respectable solo shop - a class act. I got an email back stating he received an overwhelming amount of applications. I imagine people were looking for mentorship and an opportunity.

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lionelhutz (Aug 11, 2017 - 10:36 pm)

GIGS - are you talking about the Bay Area?

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guyingorillasuit (Aug 11, 2017 - 10:49 pm)

Yes.

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lionelhutz (Aug 11, 2017 - 11:36 pm)

maybe the kids have moved to some place they can acutally afford...

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guyingorillasuit (Aug 11, 2017 - 11:54 pm)

Yeah, it's tough to make it here. You have to be a little entrepreneurial. You know what - I guess I don't blame them. I'll do the work myself, stay an extra hour each day, and spend the money I would have spent on their salaries on something fun instead.

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mtbislife (Aug 11, 2017 - 11:37 pm)

So you are surprised that after 7 years of education and a boat load of debt people dont want to work for free or low wages?

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guyingorillasuit (Aug 11, 2017 - 11:49 pm)

You must not have been around in this board's early days.

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themapmaster (Aug 12, 2017 - 2:17 am)

the title of this thread is incredibly asinine. 38% of 2016 grads (instead of 45% from three years prior) not having full time Bar passage jobs nine months after graduation is still shockingly terrible.

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thirdtierlaw (Aug 12, 2017 - 4:29 am)

They are still out there, but I believe class sizes are a bit smaller in the past. I think the other big factor is that in 2008-10 there were a ton of layoffs in mid and biglaw. So new grads were not only competing among themselves but also first and second year displaced associates.

Any reason is likely due to the scam being exposed. It's not a great career for job security, even when it is going well. So I'd bet that when people graduate without a job and can't find one after passing the bar they just go into another industry. It's hard to motivate people to work for free when their reward for success is $45k a year and 55 hour weeks.

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downwardslope (Aug 12, 2017 - 8:34 am)

It's not just the scam being exposed, but the cost of law school as well. Those 2008-2010 grads were typically paying no more than around $30-37K a year in tuition and thought they were going to be rewarded with high-paying jobs upon graduation. For most, the PSLF was not as appealing because they took out a combination of private and public loans since PSLF wasn't even introduced until 2007. I know when I was in school (I finished in this bunch), you did not take out a GradPLUS loan unless your credit was terrible because the interest rate + fees + origination put the rates at well over 10%.

Now one in their right mind is going to pay $50-57K sticker when they know they'll probably come out with a job that doesn't even pay that much per year to start.

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dakotalaw (Aug 12, 2017 - 10:00 am)

38% of all graduates probably don't deserve jobs.

First subtract all the bar failures who legally can't work. Your 38% goes to about 8%, give or take.

You are telling me that this 8% all deserve jobs?

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wutwutwut (Aug 12, 2017 - 11:31 am)

Wew, I opened the thread expecting to see that we'd gotten a visit from Ben Barros...

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cargo (Aug 12, 2017 - 12:40 pm)

I think part of it is the cost of living issue. In the Bay Area, asian and tech money have bid up housing prices to a level where entry level workers have to ask for a lot of money just to be able to pay the rent. They would likely be willing to work for less if their own rents were lower.

Back when In This Economy began in 2008-2011, the rest of the country was in the same Depression that the legal industry was in. While no one could find jobs back then, rents were also substantially lower.

The legal market has recovered a lot as well. It seems that since 2013 or so, attorneys in the Bay have been able to find jobs relatively quickly.

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gilles (Aug 12, 2017 - 2:15 pm)

Bay Area you say? I'm a member in good standing of the CA bar. When can I start?

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patenttrollnj (Aug 12, 2017 - 2:19 pm)

Shortage of lawyers? Where do you live? The Johnston Atoll?

Seriously, I think that's just a perception. No real evidence that we have a shortage.

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trickydick (Aug 12, 2017 - 4:42 pm)

I'm not seeing a shortage of young kids fresh out of law school looking to sweep up crappy, low paying jobs. They're coming out of the wood work in L.A.

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2breedbares (Aug 13, 2017 - 12:32 am)

I don't think there is a shortage in LA, but I notice that young/new lawyers are having an easier time getting jobs, even at biglaw. I know several Loyola/Pepperdine grads getting biglaw who aren't Coif.

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shitlawsf (Aug 12, 2017 - 5:21 pm)

My guess is you are observing a local phenomenon. The Bay Area is just too expensive. Even 4th tier grads can see that.

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onehell (Aug 12, 2017 - 11:05 pm)

People are still getting scammed, but as another poster pointed out, they are more apt to know when to fold a losing hand. They go back to school for something else, or they move to lower COL areas, or (like many millennials) they take advantage of the fact that there is no longer nearly as much shame in just living with your parents and working at the coffee shop or whatever. There's nothing to grow up into, so they just don't grow up.

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prodigy (Aug 13, 2017 - 7:47 am)

Is this anything new? Come to Suffolk County and you see old biddies.

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associatex (Aug 13, 2017 - 4:21 pm)

They are millenials. They will stay home living in their parents basement begging for home cooked meals vs striking it out for unpaid wage jobs like OPs.

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cacrimdefense (Aug 13, 2017 - 4:53 pm)

There is no shortage of them here in California's most populous county. In fact, the nearby firm (nearby to my solo practice office) that sends me all sorts of felony cases to handle, keeps hiring them. Largely a bunch of 20 somethings w/ the names of various UC or CSU campuses listed on their resumes (for their undergrad work), along w/ names of Cali law schools w/ dreadful CBE pass rates.

That being said, many of the above-described newbies prove to be competent and come off as at least somewhat intelligent.

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