Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

TJ Law - Less than a quarter of students can pass the bar

Thomas Jefferson Law was able to withstand a lawsuit, but th 6figuremistake06/05/17
64 percent at UCLA? wow sjlawyer06/05/17
Those numbers are only first time takers. Imagine what TJSL' flharfh06/05/17
*take re-takers into account flharfh06/05/17
What type of law grad takes the bar in february (who didn't sjlawyer06/05/17
The majority of February test takers are repeat takers, and bucwild06/05/17
Right, but this list is 1st time takers. So who exactly is sjlawyer06/05/17
1) Part time students 2) poor performers that failed courses flharfh06/05/17
Someone who graduated in the winter (it's rare, but possible bucwild06/05/17
Also someone moving to CA to start work - last time I checke lazlo06/06/17
I was, and I graduated on time and was a f/t student. I h cacrimdefense06/07/17
I was a first time taker in February. There were, I think, bigscarymonster06/09/17
As bar passage rates go down. Getting closer to 50% in many triplesix06/05/17
Hastings has way higher admissions standards and can only ge trollfeeder06/05/17
Wow. The numbers are terrible all around. TJ's number is a imoothereforeim06/05/17
A pulse and the capacity to knowingly sign loan agreements i isthisit06/05/17
Just to be clear... All you need is physical capacity, not m triplesix06/05/17
Where are Stanford and Berkeley's numbers? Astounding how sillydood06/05/17
Jesus. I wonder what the rate is for only non-accredited CA superttthero06/05/17
People's college of law's number is like 19%. Of course, th sjlawyer06/05/17
Wow. Almost 3 out 4 Hastings bar takers failed. Incredible kancho06/05/17
UC Hastings did that poorly, and Frank Wu has the gall to ch acerimmer06/05/17
1. Here is the complete alphabetical list of those law schoo legalace06/06/17
Don't forget, the ABA is hesitant to pull federal funding fo kretan18206/06/17
Meh. They will just make the bar exam easier. imoothereforeim06/06/17
ABA doesn't regulate the bar exam and most jurisdiction are triplesix06/06/17
You mean a capital crime, prole. Clearly you attended an in blackpappy06/06/17
Teaching the bar, I've learned that a lot of people specific loser1206/08/17
Just my 2 cents, but the bar exam is not indicative of abili qdllc06/08/17
Udner this logic... No exam should required for any professi triplesix06/08/17
The textual material that comes with bar prep courses can be junkwired06/08/17
The bar exam is not and does not purport to be an IQ test. I trickydick06/08/17
Disagree. The MBE is an animal all its own. If it were just associatex06/09/17
The bar exam is basically a test of a whether a person has t flharfh06/09/17
That the schools that teach to the bar don't have higher pas loser1206/08/17

6figuremistake (Jun 5, 2017 - 8:27 am)

Thomas Jefferson Law was able to withstand a lawsuit, but they can't withstand reality. I wonder how long before they take the Whittier express to defunct law school land...

http://abovethelaw.com/2017/06/california-bar-exam-results-by-law-school-february-2017/

Santa Clara: 69 percent
Loyola (LA): 67 percent
Western State: 67 percent
UCLA: 64 percent
Pepperdine: 59 percent
U. San Diego: 53 percent
McGeorge: 50 percent
STATEWIDE AVERAGE: 45 PERCENT
California Western: 45 percent
Golden Gate: 33 percent
U. San Francisco: 31 percent
UC Hastings: 27 percent
Southwestern: 24 percent
Thomas Jefferson: 24 percent

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sjlawyer (Jun 5, 2017 - 9:26 am)

64 percent at UCLA? wow

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flharfh (Jun 5, 2017 - 10:12 am)

Those numbers are only first time takers. Imagine what TJSL's pass rate is once you take them into account?

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flharfh (Jun 5, 2017 - 11:20 am)

*take re-takers into account

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sjlawyer (Jun 5, 2017 - 4:18 pm)

What type of law grad takes the bar in february (who didn't fail the 1st time)? Does this group skew a particular way?

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bucwild (Jun 5, 2017 - 4:31 pm)

The majority of February test takers are repeat takers, and the majority of bar failures are of repeat failures. Due to the nature of the curve, it would appear that pass rates should be lower in February, even though February would be the easiest time to pass.

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sjlawyer (Jun 5, 2017 - 4:42 pm)

Right, but this list is 1st time takers. So who exactly is a first time taker in February?

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flharfh (Jun 5, 2017 - 4:52 pm)

1) Part time students 2) poor performers that failed courses and couldn't graduate on time.

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bucwild (Jun 5, 2017 - 5:22 pm)

Someone who graduated in the winter (it's rare, but possible), or someone who simply delayed taking the bar.

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lazlo (Jun 6, 2017 - 3:52 pm)

Also someone moving to CA to start work - last time I checked, they didn't have reciprocity with anyone else. [Edit: which probably wouldn't apply to graduates of CA schools, of course]

Is it true that the scaled scores for the MBE are different for July and February? Could never understand why.

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cacrimdefense (Jun 7, 2017 - 4:33 pm)

I was, and I graduated on time and was a f/t student.

I hated law school so much I didn't sit for the bar until I had been out for 5 years.

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bigscarymonster (Jun 9, 2017 - 2:03 pm)

I was a first time taker in February. There were, I think, three of us in my class that decided it was better financially to graduate a semester early. Sitting in class doesn't make you any money when there's offers on the table.

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triplesix (Jun 5, 2017 - 10:26 am)

As bar passage rates go down. Getting closer to 50% in many jurisdiction. I wonder at what point do people say that this system is the most idiotic way to produce monkeys.

Does anyone expect people who fail to pay their student loans? Not paying your loans during the first year, might as well not even try to catch up after that. You just got an idiot tax imposed on you, what's the point?

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trollfeeder (Jun 5, 2017 - 11:36 am)

Hastings has way higher admissions standards and can only get 3% higher passage rate? Wtf?

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imoothereforeim (Jun 5, 2017 - 11:39 am)

Wow. The numbers are terrible all around. TJ's number is actually decent in comparison.

Exactly how low are the admission standards at these schools?

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isthisit (Jun 5, 2017 - 12:31 pm)

A pulse and the capacity to knowingly sign loan agreements is all that's required.

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triplesix (Jun 5, 2017 - 12:43 pm)

Just to be clear... All you need is physical capacity, not mental.

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sillydood (Jun 5, 2017 - 12:51 pm)

Where are Stanford and Berkeley's numbers?

Astounding how low UCLA is.

The system is clearly broken. There should be like 1/3 the number of law schools as there are, but the vested interests control the ABA.

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superttthero (Jun 5, 2017 - 12:53 pm)

Jesus. I wonder what the rate is for only non-accredited CA schools.

This is a sick joke on the stupid and the American tax payer.

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sjlawyer (Jun 5, 2017 - 2:20 pm)

People's college of law's number is like 19%. Of course, that's allegedly 6 out of 32 takers in 5 years. YMMV

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kancho (Jun 5, 2017 - 4:05 pm)

Wow. Almost 3 out 4 Hastings bar takers failed. Incredible.

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acerimmer (Jun 5, 2017 - 4:41 pm)

UC Hastings did that poorly, and Frank Wu has the gall to chastise law school critics for hyperbole?

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legalace (Jun 6, 2017 - 1:00 am)

1. Here is the complete alphabetical list of those law schools with at least eleven total test takers:
http://abovethelaw.com/2017/06/california-bar-exam-results-by-law-school-february-2017/2/

2. These results are for the February, 2017 exam. I have been unable to locate results for the July, 2016 exam.

3. Berkeley, Stanford, and People's College of Law are not included, as they had ten or fewer test takers at the February, 2017 exam.

4. At this exam, Hastings had only fifteen, and UCLA had only fourteen, first time test takers.

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kretan182 (Jun 6, 2017 - 7:51 am)

Don't forget, the ABA is hesitant to pull federal funding for these extremely low performing turd tier schools, since a disproportionate amount of minority students attend these institutions. This will negatively affect diversity, which is a capitol crime.

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imoothereforeim (Jun 6, 2017 - 1:49 pm)

Meh. They will just make the bar exam easier.

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triplesix (Jun 6, 2017 - 2:06 pm)

ABA doesn't regulate the bar exam and most jurisdiction are not lowering for standards for now. At least state bars have some dignity haha

I know Cali Deans are pushing for easier exam, so it might happen but for now a few classes will get slaughtered, as those idiots should.

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blackpappy (Jun 6, 2017 - 4:40 pm)

You mean a capital crime, prole. Clearly you attended an inner city school that taught ebonics instead of the queen's.

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loser12 (Jun 8, 2017 - 1:21 pm)

Teaching the bar, I've learned that a lot of people specifically go to California and Florida because they don't need the same LSAT score.

I'm not sure how predictive the LSAT is of passage, but the people who struggle because they don't understand what they are reading always, always, always fail the bar.

TJSL is admitting students they already know will fail.

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qdllc (Jun 8, 2017 - 2:05 pm)

Just my 2 cents, but the bar exam is not indicative of ability as an attorney. It's more a reflection of a person's ability to retain a large amount of information and regurgitate it in a closed book exam.

Being a 4.0 student doesn't get you out of the bar, and you can barely pass law school and practice if you meet the passing bar exam score.

That's why there substantial money put into exam prep courses.

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triplesix (Jun 8, 2017 - 2:13 pm)

Udner this logic... No exam should required for any professional certification.

Exam prep courses are a scum and most people can pass without any help if they just study for few weeks but ironically all this "very smart and hard working people" don't trust themselves to study for a test. That should tell you enough about quality of people who go to lawl school haha

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junkwired (Jun 8, 2017 - 3:13 pm)

The textual material that comes with bar prep courses can be pretty great. However, I didn't benefit much from the lectures.

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trickydick (Jun 8, 2017 - 5:21 pm)

The bar exam is not and does not purport to be an IQ test. It's memorization of basic information every attorney should know and the organized, formulaic regurgitation of that information. The bar exam simply asks that you prove you know the bare minimum required to practice law and can give some sort of explanation of it.

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associatex (Jun 9, 2017 - 2:32 pm)

Disagree. The MBE is an animal all its own. If it were just a basic test of memorization, we would see more scaled scores of 160+ and many more people getting 199/200 scores - but the average scaled score is only in the mid 140s, which means even top students get at least 25 questions wrong in each session. The MBE is designed with 5 answer choices and 2 choices can easily be the correct answer if it weren't for the way the sentence is phrased (wording) or the if the taker doesn't interpret the question the way the test maker designed it. In some way, it is an IQ test because if you are smart enough not to fall for the traps, you can guess the right answer in a shorter time frame than someone who has to perform various mental diagrams to understand the question and answer choices (especially on complex property questions where you have multiple parties, easements, etc).

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flharfh (Jun 9, 2017 - 2:31 pm)

The bar exam is basically a test of a whether a person has the intelligence and work ethic to learn and then memorize a large body of moderately complex information. While doing well on the bar exam doesn't mean you'll be a good lawyer, it definitely correlates.

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loser12 (Jun 8, 2017 - 2:42 pm)

That the schools that teach to the bar don't have higher passage rates suggests the courses may be overrated.

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