Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

How much work is too much?

I am surrounded by motions. 27 to be exact that need opposit legalbeagle05/30/17
This is just one of those things you have you decide for you elle30105/30/17
That is a heavy load. What kind of cases are these? Even if 2breedbares05/30/17
This is a good point, there is a big difference between boil flharfh05/30/17
with the partner i work for...nothing is cut and paste -_- l legalbeagle06/06/17
If we could peer through the floor into hell we would see at persius05/30/17
Writing bs motions or trading data entry forms back and fort mtbislife05/30/17
My wife (also attorney) and I played "What would we rather b jd4hire05/30/17
Picking up garbage in a national park is more beneficial to mtbislife05/30/17
True! vohod05/30/17
You and your wife hit the nail on the head with the monotony thirdtierlaw05/31/17
Any. wutwutwut05/30/17
Get any government job that will support your mortgage plus vohod05/30/17
What sucks about small law is that it does not get better. T joshdoctson05/30/17
I get that feeling sometimes. Just is what it is. If you hav shikes05/30/17
This is the attitude that drives many away from law. Why exa mtbislife05/30/17
Exactly. Be super educated-- but not get paid for anything bizzybone131305/31/17
The only justification for it is boomers saying: "well I had mtbislife05/31/17
Did they? What about 1099 abuse, they had to do that to? triplesix05/31/17
She did it right. 36k working hours she wanted for half a ye vohod05/30/17
Any more than 40 hours/week is unacceptable unless you're ma sillydood05/31/17
Post of the year. But every striver thinks that he or she triplesix05/31/17
Seriously. mtbislife05/31/17
i work at least 40 hours a week, sometimes i try to come in legalbeagle06/02/17
So youve been out about 4yrs and not even at 75k? This is th mtbislife06/02/17
It took me 6 years to get near 6 figures; granted I was insa loblawyer06/02/17
Working more than 40 hours a week without being paid for it flyer1406/02/17
Certified. Working OT for no OT pay is a fool's errand. Your triplesix06/02/17
The problem is if you don't file the BS or respond to all th vohod06/02/17
I see your point but you are the principal of the firm haha triplesix06/02/17

legalbeagle (May 30, 2017 - 12:29 pm)

I am surrounded by motions. 27 to be exact that need opposition from now until the middle of july. some can be adjourned others not. more than half are summary judgment. i have to make 4 motions with 30-day deadlines...of course i can never finish anything with the 10000 distractions that is inherent in a small firm like this. I feel like I'm drowning, and as soon as i start checking off things on my list, i get bombarded with more paperwork. could i stay late? sure, except i have very young children and it's not longer possible. and i am not willing to sacrifice my very limited time with them for what i no longer believe is full-filling work. i feel like a machine. just cranking out motions. im unhappy, VERY unpaid, and under-appreciated. i don't think i'm asking for advice, i just don't know if i'm cut out for this, or if this is just a hurdle i have to get over. im not a seasoned attorney, so i know this is to be expected. is it worth it?

Reply Like (0)
elle301 (May 30, 2017 - 1:41 pm)

This is just one of those things you have you decide for yourself. Maybe now is the time to start looking at other options? Look at government jobs... I have young kids and made that choice about a year ago. I hated feeling like I had to choose between my kids and my work-- so now I work a 9-5 and don't have the billable hour pressure of working in a firm. In addition, you are closely supervised when you are inexperienced and can build a demonstrable skill set.

Hang in there, but it's probably time to do some thinking about what you really want out of life.

Reply Like (0)
2breedbares (May 30, 2017 - 1:56 pm)

That is a heavy load. What kind of cases are these? Even if the MSJ are cut and paste legal issues, the separate statements alone are time sinks.

Reply Like (0)
flharfh (May 30, 2017 - 2:50 pm)

This is a good point, there is a big difference between boilerplate motions with boilerplate supporting docs versus something with unique facts where you have to draft docs from scratch or nearly so.

Reply Like (0)
legalbeagle (Jun 6, 2017 - 12:14 pm)

with the partner i work for...nothing is cut and paste -_- liability ones at least.

Reply Like (0)
persius (May 30, 2017 - 3:08 pm)

If we could peer through the floor into hell we would see attorneys answering summary judgment motions.

Reply Like (1)
mtbislife (May 30, 2017 - 3:49 pm)

Writing bs motions or trading data entry forms back and forth all day is indeed soul sucking. Ive been in the game for much less time than most of you but am starting to think being a forest ranger or any job that doesnt involve sitting in front of a computer all day is better than what im doing now.

Reply Like (0)
jd4hire (May 30, 2017 - 4:44 pm)

My wife (also attorney) and I played "What would we rather be" on our 5 hour drive home yesterday. I ended with National Park Ranger. We also both concluded that regardless of the job, you see monotony and boredom.

I hear you though, I feel like a gerbil stuck on a ball in a little cage. I'll tell you what though, I previously worked in sales in a cubicle and that was soul sucking. Something about the cubicle that is demeaning on many levels.

As to peering through the floor into hell, I live for MSJs - they're great billables and relatively fun. I guess I have a distorted idea of fun.

Reply Like (0)
mtbislife (May 30, 2017 - 5:47 pm)

Picking up garbage in a national park is more beneficial to society than litigating some joke trip and fall or representing someone on their 4th dui haha.

Reply Like (0)
vohod (May 30, 2017 - 5:57 pm)

True!

Reply Like (0)
thirdtierlaw (May 31, 2017 - 10:26 am)

You and your wife hit the nail on the head with the monotony and boredom. I don't mind being a lawyer, most days. But I also work a pretty consistent 45-50 hour week. I wouldn't ever work a 60-hour week job for 30k a year. It's just not worth it.

But there isn't a job in the world that won't get old after awhile. I'd wager the happiest people in the world are the ones that hold a job that is bearable and pays the bills but still lets them have interests and hobbies outside of work. Sadly law isn't very conducive to that. SO though I typically work 40-50 hour weeks there are certain times that work stays on my mind way into the evening. You're very unlikely to get that as a Park Ranger.

Reply Like (0)
wutwutwut (May 30, 2017 - 3:50 pm)

Any.

Reply Like (1)
vohod (May 30, 2017 - 4:26 pm)

Get any government job that will support your mortgage plus a cut back lifestyle. Get off the small law treadmill. There is no partnership, no guns, no glory. We small law guys are completely fungible.

Reply Like (0)
joshdoctson (May 30, 2017 - 4:55 pm)

What sucks about small law is that it does not get better. The hours and the pressure to bring in business make it almost impossible to sustain a life outside of work.

Reply Like (0)
shikes (May 30, 2017 - 7:45 pm)

I get that feeling sometimes. Just is what it is. If you have substantive skills, contacts, or both, you may as well try to change your situation if you are miserable.

One question though: You indicate you are unwilling to work late hours. How many hours, on average, do you work a week now? I used to work with an associate who said she was unwilling to sacrafice her life for work and refused to work late or weekends. We soon noticed that she came in around 9 and left at 4:55 daily. She made 72k as an entry level. If you wanna work less than 40 hours a week, you shouldn't be an attorney, or at the very least shouldn't expect to get paid 72k. This went on for about 6 months until the firm suggested she find "other options".

Reply Like (0)
mtbislife (May 30, 2017 - 11:40 pm)

This is the attitude that drives many away from law. Why exactly, after 7 years of higher education are we expected to work long nights and weekends for low pay? When does the reward come? When we are divorced and our kids like the babysitter more than us?

Reply Like (3)
bizzybone1313 (May 31, 2017 - 1:08 am)

Exactly. Be super educated-- but not get paid for anything after 40 hours when a methhead working in oil field gets paid for any and all hours worked?? How does that make sense?? It needs to change in Congress fast. Change the labor laws to make employers pay for all hours worked by employees-- whether doing physical labor or professional work.

This has never made any sense to me. I go to college and better myself. And I don't get paid for anything after 40 hours. But a methhead HS dropout gets paid for all hours worked because he or she does physical labor.

Reply Like (0)
mtbislife (May 31, 2017 - 9:50 am)

The only justification for it is boomers saying: "well I had to do it."

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (May 31, 2017 - 9:55 am)

Did they? What about 1099 abuse, they had to do that to?

Bootstrapping was so hard for those hard workers and safers.

Reply Like (0)
vohod (May 30, 2017 - 11:54 pm)

She did it right. 36k working hours she wanted for half a year plus time to get a new job! At my firms it'd be 6 days and then I'd be out.

Reply Like (0)
sillydood (May 31, 2017 - 10:28 am)

Any more than 40 hours/week is unacceptable unless you're making like $250k or more.

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (May 31, 2017 - 10:32 am)

Post of the year.

But every striver thinks that he or she will out do the other by putting the extra hours of free work... Crabs are gonna 🦀

Reply Like (0)
mtbislife (May 31, 2017 - 11:56 am)

Seriously.

Reply Like (0)
legalbeagle (Jun 2, 2017 - 1:36 pm)

i work at least 40 hours a week, sometimes i try to come in early. i am definitely not making 75k and i dont see myself getting that much next year, or the following if i stay. i get it, i'm an associate, haven't even been practicing 5 years...i expect to have long days and mountains of work. i just don't feel like i have any time to learn the practice if all i have time to do is try to save some slip and fall case.

Reply Like (0)
mtbislife (Jun 2, 2017 - 3:41 pm)

So youve been out about 4yrs and not even at 75k? This is the problem with shltlaw...Some kids out of undergrad start at 60k.

Reply Like (0)
loblawyer (Jun 2, 2017 - 7:22 pm)

It took me 6 years to get near 6 figures; granted I was insanely complacent at times I should have been looking for something better.

Reply Like (0)
flyer14 (Jun 2, 2017 - 1:55 pm)

Working more than 40 hours a week without being paid for it or at least getting comp time is for proles.

Go do something more productive with your time. Pick up a hobby, go fishing, spend time with the kids if you have any.

To OP: No, law practice doesn't change much with experience. If you don't like it now, odds are you won't like it later - consider lateraling out of law into compliance, an in house position, or government. You'll love the work life balance much better that way.

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (Jun 2, 2017 - 2:33 pm)

Certified. Working OT for no OT pay is a fool's errand. Your employer is literally stealing from you haha

Reply Like (0)
vohod (Jun 2, 2017 - 3:03 pm)

The problem is if you don't file the BS or respond to all the nonsense, the lunatic clients or OC will move for sanctions. So a brokedick lawyer that wants to see his family can pay the boomer judiciary $100. Hahahaha

Reply Like (0)
triplesix (Jun 2, 2017 - 4:27 pm)

I see your point but you are the principal of the firm haha

Reply Like (0)
Post a message in this thread