Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

prestigious Skadden Fellowship.

From prison to prestige. http://www.king5.com/news/local/la sanka05/14/17
The lawyers who told her to apply to law school did her a di isthisit05/14/17
This is my problem with state bars and ethics committees. Wh loblawyer05/14/17
Yeah, one should be able to apply for a character and fitnes anonattempt05/14/17
If they could argue reliance after one year, why not after t soupcansham05/15/17
Although my heart goes out to people like this who have / ap anonattempt05/14/17
Remember, these guys approved of Shon Hopwood's application rubbersoul1405/15/17
Not really comparing apples to apples though. And as a prel anonattempt05/15/17
I remember a post about permitting an illegal to practice l clocker105/14/17
Another reminder that the law school scam is run by fraudste wolfman05/15/17
It was a bad idea for her to go to law school. She is a comp adamb05/15/17
C&F should be done upon admission to law school with a recon flharfh05/15/17
What do you mean about not knowing if you can use the degree inho2solo05/15/17
My school did make me fill out extensive C&F type stuff as p adamb05/15/17
I love the apples to oranges comparisons of other people who dingbat05/15/17
Comparison is fair when one person paid their debt in prison clocker105/19/17
Whatever man. If you can't figure out the difference on you anonattempt05/19/17
I have a family member who works in a hospital and has dealt flharfh05/15/17
"None of her past crimes seem to even remotely involve disho inho2solo05/15/17
Drug addicts make me stabby because they never want to take fettywap05/15/17
sanka (May 14, 2017 - 6:34 am)

From prison to prestige.
http://www.king5.com/news/local/law-student-who-turned-her-life-around-cant-take-bar-exam-because-of-her-past/439416369

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isthisit (May 14, 2017 - 10:09 am)

The lawyers who told her to apply to law school did her a disservice.

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loblawyer (May 14, 2017 - 11:55 am)

This is my problem with state bars and ethics committees. What is the point of paying your debt to society if the past conviction continues to hang over you like Jean Valjean. And don't get me started on bankruptcy. What a farce that companies can walk away from their debts when convenient but for individuals it is some sort of scarlet letter.

None of her past crimes seem to even remotely involve dishonesty and certainly not violence. I hope her appeal is successful.

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anonattempt (May 14, 2017 - 12:32 pm)

Yeah, one should be able to apply for a character and fitness evaluation at least after 1L year or something. You could even call it an "advisory evaluation,' although I'm sure some would eventually argue reliance.

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soupcansham (May 15, 2017 - 5:00 pm)

If they could argue reliance after one year, why not after three?

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anonattempt (May 14, 2017 - 12:27 pm)

Although my heart goes out to people like this who have / appear to have turned their life around, I am hesitant to judge the WA board's decision without knowing all of the facts. For example, another article (http://www.abajournal.com/news/article/law_student_with_felony_record_and_skadden_fellowship_denied_character_and/) indicates she was nurse for 11 years, and her third criminal offense was for FELONY THEFT (my emphasis), delivery of Oxycodone, possession of marijuana with intent to deliver, and unlawful possession of a firearm. She ultimately pleaded guilty in 2010 to felony theft and the drug charges. Without taking time do research into the criminal case, I am wondering if the felony theft guilty peading was for taking the Oxycodone from where she worked as a nurse and selling it? That is my assumption... If it is, that complicates things beyond the short story OP shared, which also does not discuss any felony theft. If she was working as a nurse, and not in any real sort of financial distress, stealing drugs from her work, and selling those drugs, and doing all of this armed with an unregistered firearm, then I can appreciate some serious hesitation on the part of the board... I would think that the using one's professional position of trust and access to further criminal actions would be the biggest issue of concern for the board. Just my 2 cents. Another article (http://nwpr.org/post/drugs-prison-law-school-woman-faces-one-extra-hurdle-become-lawyer) states that the state's nursing board also took enforcement action against her. Ultimately, I am rooting for her, but I'm not sure I'd bet on her... Also, attorney may have not been the best second career for her after that conviction... Assuming she was stealing prescription drugs from work and selling them, I assume she could not have started working as a nurse again any time soon after she got out of prison, due to the concerns involved -so why as an attorney? According to that article, she will be able to re-apply in one year if WA's Supreme Court approves the board's decision. I think she will get into the WA bar eventually, although times will certainly be tough until then...

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rubbersoul14 (May 15, 2017 - 9:11 am)

Remember, these guys approved of Shon Hopwood's application - and that guy served 10 years in prison for armed bank robbery. I think the WA bar is full of sh1t here.

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anonattempt (May 15, 2017 - 11:42 am)

Not really comparing apples to apples though. And as a preliminary note, I think whoever gets convicted of a felony and then goes to law school is taking a lot risk regardless...

If the appeals board had denied Shon's C&F instead of approving it, I don't think I would have lost any sleep over it either. Some win, some lose... For example, Shon doesn't seem to have abused a professional position of trust. Also, maybe the OP story would have been different if the person had spent 10 years in jail and not 2 years, who knows.

"Full of sh1t" is a bit far I think.

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clocker1 (May 14, 2017 - 1:05 pm)

I remember a post about permitting an illegal to practice law (maybe CA). If an illegal immigrant can practice, then a person who has paid their debt should be given the same opportunity.

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wolfman (May 15, 2017 - 10:27 am)

Another reminder that the law school scam is run by fraudsters and criminals, in my opinion... she would've been way better off trying to get her nursing licence back... she'll still need to get it back if she wants to be a nurse paralegal... people who have no chance of being admitted keep going to LS and thinking it's all going to work out because, after all, a "graduate school" was willing to "take a chance" and let them in... and they won't listen when they are told THE DEANS JUST WANT YOUR MONEY.

People laugh when I say law deans should be in jail, but I'm entirely serious. Hopefully, the NC AG's investigation of Charlotte is the first one of many.

These people should be in prison and have to pay restitution to all the law students they scammed, just like your garden variety Bernie Madoff types, and since they can't pay restitution, they should forfeit all property just like he did.

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adamb (May 15, 2017 - 10:33 am)

It was a bad idea for her to go to law school. She is a competent adult who should have researched c&f much more carefully.

We have too many attorneys as is. Why would we want to admit felons and illegal immigrants just to feel good about redemption or whatever? This is on her.

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flharfh (May 15, 2017 - 10:43 am)

C&F should be done upon admission to law school with a reconsideration at graduation if any new issues arise. It is asinine to have people attend at great expense and the cost of three years of their life not knowing whether or not they'll be able to use their degree.

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inho2solo (May 15, 2017 - 5:25 pm)

What do you mean about not knowing if you can use the degree?

It doesn't matter if you can't pass C&F.

I'm telling ya, the JD is VER-SEE-TYLE.

Versatile. Versatile. Versatile.

Chant it like a mantra - maybe someone'll believe it!

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adamb (May 15, 2017 - 9:25 pm)

My school did make me fill out extensive C&F type stuff as part of the application so that they would see red flags up front. It is my understanding that they would not admit you if you were, say, a felon. I guess her school did not.

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dingbat (May 15, 2017 - 12:12 pm)

I love the apples to oranges comparisons of other people who've committed XYZ violation and were admitted. And yes, I'm specifically talking to Clocker, who thinks being an illegal alien is more serious than a nurse stealing drugs from the hospital and selling them on the streets.


The C in C&F stands for Character, not Convictions. From the state bar's point of view, a violent crime could be a one-off, whereas crimes of moral turpitude are more serious. Paying your debt to society may give a newfound appreciation for choice of profession, and violence can be tempered with age and guidance. Being a sneaky little git is an immutable character trait. Dishonesty is a major concern

Remember, nobody cares about their attorney getting into a fight in an after-hours brawl, or racks up speeding tickets, or something like that. But an attorney embezzling from them?
The number 1 reason for bar complaints / disbarment is misappropriation of client funds

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clocker1 (May 19, 2017 - 2:28 pm)

Comparison is fair when one person paid their debt in prison and the other has not been deported.

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anonattempt (May 19, 2017 - 2:52 pm)

Whatever man. If you can't figure out the difference on your own, then I won't waste too much of my breath. I think the person you are referring to was brought over by his parents when he was one years old, so I don't think there are a whole lot of character and fitness issues we can extrapolate from his crime. Personally I think felony theft at age 30 has more character and fitness implications than does illegal immigration as a baby, but that's just like, my opinion, man. Whether one has 'paid their debt' to their society is also not dispositive. Doesn't sound like anyone arrested him. We expect him to self-deport before we trust his character and fitness? There might be other valid concerns (e.g., whether someone who is in violation of federal law could lawfully practice law), but doesn't seem like a character and fitness issue.

Edit: looks like he left the U.S. with his family at 9, and then came back illegally at age 17, but I still think its a more complicated C&F situation than felony theft. CA also passed a law, apparently, before his admission, endorsing undocumented/illegal immigrants being able to join the bar. At the very least, that further complicates things. No state legislature passed a law giving a green light to felony theft.

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flharfh (May 15, 2017 - 4:56 pm)

I have a family member who works in a hospital and has dealt with a few of these situations. There are basically two ways to steal drugs from a hospital as a nurse. First, cooking the books between when the drugs arrive and when they are administered to hide the theft. This is pretty difficult to do because most nurses wouldn't have access to that part of the system and there are typically pretty robust audit / check systems. The other, easier way is simply pocketing meds meant for patients instead of administering them.

The latter, known as "diversion," is especially horrifying because it leaves patients undermedicated and probably in severe pain. Basically the two types of people that do that are sociopaths or absolutely raging, out of control addicts. I could see how either one would be a big C&F issue.

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inho2solo (May 15, 2017 - 5:27 pm)

"None of her past crimes seem to even remotely involve dishonesty"


Felony theft?

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fettywap (May 15, 2017 - 9:38 pm)

Drug addicts make me stabby because they never want to take responsibility for their actions. They think they should be applauded and congratulated for living like a normal person. Just no.

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