Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Signed offer letter, not contract. Went to work 1st day. Can I back out?

After being unemployed since November, I interviewed and got sfgiantsfan02/08/17
Short answer is no and you don't provide any facts to say ye triplesix02/08/17
Wow, you've been out of work for 3+ months, manage to land a inho2solo02/08/17
Wow, you've been out of work for 3+ months, manage to land a triplesix02/08/17
I don't care about the virtue of the situation. But unless inho2solo02/08/17
as others have said, you are not obligated to work, and can dingbat02/08/17
"while I doubt they'd pursue, you could be held responsible triplesix02/08/17
I've had similar questions before, including whether an empl jeffm02/08/17
You're backing out of a job after 1 day? What a bum. As t isthisit02/08/17
I didn't report anything. I wasn't given a signing bonus. sfgiantsfan02/09/17
I just want to clarify, you believe unemployment would lead thirdtierlaw02/09/17
Eh? Are you really going to make the argument that after isthisit02/09/17
I can only speak of Virginia unemployment law. Generally. qdllc02/09/17
Is this a job in a place where you moved with your mother an wolfman02/09/17
Why on earth would you not want to stay, collect a paycheck, pauperesq02/09/17
I went to an ER and told them things to look crazy so I woul sfgiantsfan02/09/17
I'm going to at least stay here until the wife gets her visa sfgiantsfan02/09/17
Damn, I got trolled. Well played sfgiantsfan. isthisit02/09/17
Can we have a separate thread on details about wife? I'd li shouldalearnedmath02/16/17
Should be here shortly. sfgiantsfan02/17/17
No worries. This is a bullshít plot. I came up with it last sfgiantsfan02/09/17
Congrats? mtobeinf02/09/17
Getting really confused here as to what is real and what is wolfman02/09/17
I think it was all a troll poast. isthisit02/09/17
I only went to the hospital to bolster my unemployment case. sfgiantsfan02/09/17
No offense, but if you actually did that IRL, I'm pretty sur wolfman02/09/17
Is this meta-trolling? 3lol02/09/17
Has to be. mtobeinf02/09/17
You are the teacher, that voted for Trump and gave the kids prodigy02/09/17
If you don't like a job, quit if you can. no contract, no o prestiiigiousone02/10/17

sfgiantsfan (Feb 8, 2017 - 4:44 pm)

After being unemployed since November, I interviewed and got an offer at a local charter school. Today was the first day, and I'm not liking the work, the kids, or the administration. Very little support, and glorified babysitting.

I signed the offer letter and emailed it, and the HR lady asked me to sign other documents including a contract, and send them within three days, in an email today.

I was fired from a job in arizona, but didn't work here long enough, so my unemployment is from California. Can I back out of this job now and keep the unemployment? Am I stuck?

Thanks!

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triplesix (Feb 8, 2017 - 5:03 pm)

Short answer is no and you don't provide any facts to say yes. So no and no.

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inho2solo (Feb 8, 2017 - 5:33 pm)

Wow, you've been out of work for 3+ months, manage to land a job, and want to quit after one bad day?

But to your question, I don't see how you can be forbidden to back out, if that's what you're asking. It may have ramifications (as already noted, to your unemployment benes, or you may have to repay any upfronts like signing money or monies advanced for a move, etc.).

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triplesix (Feb 8, 2017 - 5:46 pm)

Wow, you've been out of work for 3+ months, manage to land a job, and want to quit after one bad day?

---

Here comes the moralization brigade!!!

Give dude a break, it is just work. No need to act like he is violating some virtues here.

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inho2solo (Feb 8, 2017 - 5:48 pm)

I don't care about the virtue of the situation. But unless he's some sort of trustifarian, and really doesn't need to work at all, it seems pretty dumb to quit like this.

Robin Williams in GMVN:

"THIS WILL NOT LOOK GOOD ON A RESUME!"

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dingbat (Feb 8, 2017 - 5:42 pm)

as others have said, you are not obligated to work, and can back out whenever you want (yay 13th amendment). That doesn't mean there won't be consequences to your actions.

you probably will lose your unemployment benefits (or at least you should), may need to repay any signing bonuses, and while I doubt they'd pursue, you could be held responsible for the cost of finding a replacement

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triplesix (Feb 8, 2017 - 5:45 pm)

"while I doubt they'd pursue, you could be held responsible for the cost of finding a replacement"

I never heard of this even with a signed contract. Can you flush it out a bit more? Maybe an example case?

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jeffm (Feb 8, 2017 - 7:04 pm)

I've had similar questions before, including whether an employee can recover damages from the neglect of its employee. For example, if the employee crashes a company vehicle, can he be liable to the employer?

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isthisit (Feb 8, 2017 - 11:41 pm)

You're backing out of a job after 1 day? What a bum.

As to your questions: You lose unemployment assuming you reported it.
Don't sign anything else and you can still back out but you have to return any signing bonus or whatever.

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sfgiantsfan (Feb 9, 2017 - 2:54 am)

I didn't report anything. I wasn't given a signing bonus.

I was for a "non-traditiona"l high school. I did not know of the student population I'd be dealing with, nor did I know the work would not be "teaching."

The kids are awful. Tons of pregnant, ghetto kids. Some kids came in high, one came in with a probation bracelet, constant swearing and screwing around. Also, this isn't teaching, but proctoring, as I do not have to design lesson plans, create tests, lecture, etc. The students come in and sit in front of computers, doing online course work at their own pace and only resorting to the "teacher" when they need help on a specific question.

Under CA UI rules, this job is a threat to my health, morals, and safety, and since it truly is not teaching, it isn't suitable work. It would also lead to a loss in proficiency.

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thirdtierlaw (Feb 9, 2017 - 8:09 am)

I just want to clarify, you believe unemployment would lead to less of a loss in proficiency than a teaching job, even label it as a quasi-teaching job, where you help students with academic work when they need help?

Also do you really want an even larger gap on your resume without a job?

I'm just not understanding how having a job closely related to your chosen profession while looking for a different job is a worse situation than being unemployed and looking for work.

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isthisit (Feb 9, 2017 - 8:42 am)

Eh?

Are you really going to make the argument that after 8 OTJ hours your first day, you already know that this gig is a threat to your health, morals, and safety AND will result in a loss of proficiency? What exactly are you proficient in other than filing for UI?

Sarcasm aside, if you don't want to be there than just quit and let the chips fall where they may.

Or, you can stay there, collect your check, and tack on some "experience" on your resume and fluff your job duties a little so when you do apply to a better job you won't have a gap in your resume.

Ghetto schools aren't like in the movie "Only The Strong". Kids will be downright @ssholes to you but no one is going to shiv you, probably.

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qdllc (Feb 9, 2017 - 9:38 am)

I can only speak of Virginia unemployment law.

Generally....

Once you take a job, resignation "without just cause" costs you your benefits. "Just cause" is the crux.

I took a job and quit after the first paycheck. They said I'd be paid X repeatedly during the hiring process...my paycheck proved otherwise. No "meeting of the minds" nor did they honor their commitment. More so, to get by, I'd have to take a second job, and that meant being off the lot at 5pm. I knew they couldn't work with that and they were forced to let me go.

UI commission took my side for completely different reasons. I was paid X per week (salary + any earned commission). They had me out doing manual labor upwards to 12 hours every day. I had a right to Y% of my past employment income and the math worked out to less than minimum wage (something else I did point out).

You better document very well what you were told of the job you were offered/accepted. Then, you document what you were given. I don't know if "meeting of the minds" will apply under CA law, but certainly it sounds like the job you got was very different of what you believed it to be. Sounds like rather than a school you're working in a halfway house. You might have an argument that you are not qualified to do this job and it's not right for you. In reality, a former prison guard would be better suited for the environment you just described as compared to a former teacher.

The key is look up case law on what terms must be met in order to voluntarily quit and NOT lose benefits BEFORE you walk away so you have the legal requirements met. Likewise, you could make enough of a stink that they let you go as unfit for the job...which should automatically make you eligible to go back on UI. They might have hired you out of desperation for bodies and not because you are right for the job.

* As a note, I left a job because the work shift was not workable and I KNEW the employer couldn't move me to another shift. The UI commission (and court on appeal) said I had a duty to give the employer a chance to fix the issue before walking away. KNOWING there was no other option (even if backed by facts) was not sufficient under Virginia law. I had to give the employer the opportunity to address the issue.

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wolfman (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:55 am)

Is this a job in a place where you moved with your mother and later became unemployed due to actions of an awful "Catholic" school, and now you also have a wife on the way or whatnot? Do you actually want to stay there, and how many other teaching jobs are open there? In mid-year, no less? Does it otherwise pay ok and have good benefits?

I mean, look, I'm pretty sure you can quit any job whenever unless there is a contract (and even if there is a contract, they rarely pursue), but have you thought of talking to someone before just quiting? Or using this to look for another job? I mean, I'm sure it's awful, but are you sure you can't handle it? Are the kids beating you up? Are the other "teachers" making you do drugs with them? If the answers are no, c'mon, "losing proficiency" isn't real, Solzhenitsyn was in a Soviet prison camp for years, and he didn't lose proficiency enough to matter (he was an algebra teacher on the outside and talks fondly in his books about going back to teaching math for a while after getting out of the camps)...

The way you phrase it, you *might* be able to claim your CA UI if you're lucky and play your cards right, but how long does it last and what do you do when it runs out? What did you think alternative education was other than babysitting ghetto 'tards whom a rational society would lock up at a juvenile hall (although someone would still have to teach them there)?

I'm not trying to be harsh, but I have a JD and work as a paralegal because that's the only job I could find that paid somewhat OK and had benefits, so that probably affects my perspective... I also took a bunch of CO/probation officer tests while I was unemployed... talk about ghetto 'tards, I feel your pain, at least at those jobs you get a baton and you better be ready to use it LOL... and I don't care about your school (which I'm sure is terrible) or their rights, but... where are you going to go from there if you quit?

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pauperesq (Feb 9, 2017 - 9:48 am)

Why on earth would you not want to stay, collect a paycheck, and search for a better job?

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sfgiantsfan (Feb 9, 2017 - 4:01 pm)

I went to an ER and told them things to look crazy so I wouldn't have to "go back." I didn't do it exactly right, so they're holding me against my will. I shoulda just took the loss.

In any case, my "hope" is I have a gubmint job I interviewed for. I might get that.

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sfgiantsfan (Feb 9, 2017 - 4:01 pm)

I'm going to at least stay here until the wife gets her visa.

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isthisit (Feb 9, 2017 - 4:15 pm)

Damn, I got trolled. Well played sfgiantsfan.

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shouldalearnedmath (Feb 16, 2017 - 3:33 am)

Can we have a separate thread on details about wife? I'd like to know the whole story. Are you living together yet?

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sfgiantsfan (Feb 17, 2017 - 5:46 am)

Should be here shortly.

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sfgiantsfan (Feb 9, 2017 - 4:30 pm)

No worries. This is a bullshít plot. I came up with it last night thinking of a way to bolster my case. I couldn't come in to work today because I'm literally being held against my will.

In 30 mins they're transferring me to a nut house.

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mtobeinf (Feb 9, 2017 - 4:37 pm)

Congrats?

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wolfman (Feb 9, 2017 - 4:41 pm)

Getting really confused here as to what is real and what is trolling... are you all right?

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isthisit (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:02 pm)

I think it was all a troll poast.

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sfgiantsfan (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:26 pm)

I only went to the hospital to bolster my unemployment case.

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wolfman (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:35 pm)

No offense, but if you actually did that IRL, I'm pretty sure you belong in the hospital.

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3lol (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:37 pm)

Is this meta-trolling?

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mtobeinf (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:45 pm)

Has to be.

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prodigy (Feb 9, 2017 - 5:41 pm)

You are the teacher, that voted for Trump and gave the kids your personal opinion on Trump, and then got kicked to the curb. Ha, ha, you should have called Donald and asked for a job. What does it feel like to put your career on the line for a pompus ass hole and be left feel like sh*t?

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prestiiigiousone (Feb 10, 2017 - 10:23 am)

If you don't like a job, quit if you can. no contract, no obligation. And California is a hellhole. Get out of there.

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