Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Media back at it: shilling on behalf of lawl schools

I am sure the numbers are true as in for those people who wi triplesix01/23/17
https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/ 24/business/dealbook/law- triplesix01/24/17
God, those average debt loads... 3lol01/25/17
"God, those average debt loads..." When you consider the jonthomas01/25/17
I just looked at the actual SoFi article. The one that these latinforliar01/25/17
As I understand it, there is a very small universe of jobs a soupcansham01/25/17
Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a small s triplesix01/25/17
Agreed. It's funny to me that a K-JD kid, upon graduation o mtobeinf01/25/17
I can't believe people still take these "average" starting s 6figuremistake01/25/17
I want to see the data for the schools on the bottom of the barelylegal01/25/17
And another one. http://www.businessinsider.com/us-l aw-sc triplesix01/26/17
I likely only noticed this because I live in Georgia, but I bucwild01/26/17
Sofi will only refinance loans for grads in big law with a c trollfeeder01/27/17
This is right and is why I said what I did upthread. These soupcansham01/27/17
Sofi does not require "big law". It simply requires a certai bucwild01/27/17
One of the worst values is apparently TJSL, where the grads 3lol01/27/17
Who are they kidding. I am doing better then almost all my c cocolawyer01/27/17
triplesix (Jan 23, 2017 - 10:37 am)

I am sure the numbers are true as in for those people who will qualify for SoFi refi but is that how the data is presented?

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/23/law-schools-with-the-highest-return-on-investment.html

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triplesix (Jan 24, 2017 - 11:36 pm)

https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/01/24/business/dealbook/law-school-debt-salary.html

It wouldn't be nyt.

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3lol (Jan 25, 2017 - 12:19 am)

God, those average debt loads...

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jonthomas (Jan 25, 2017 - 4:40 am)

"God, those average debt loads..."

When you consider the fact that a lot of people at the top schools have family that can pay sticker, the fact that the average debt load is around $150,000 is crazy.

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latinforliar (Jan 25, 2017 - 9:15 am)

I just looked at the actual SoFi article. The one that these sites are linking:

https://www.sofi.com/blog/sofi-2017-law-school-rankings/#comment-191052

WTF - average salaries for all law graduates is $150k? I guess everyone I know are failures.

Also - average debt load seems very high - I am assuming selection bias on the part of SoFi, given that they likely on accept high earners who want to refinance (i.e. not on income based or public loan forgiveness).

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soupcansham (Jan 25, 2017 - 9:19 am)

As I understand it, there is a very small universe of jobs and employer-types that SoFi will consider when looking at refis for student loans. I think these numbers may be skewed.

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triplesix (Jan 25, 2017 - 9:22 am)

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that a small subset of skewed data can't be applied to the broader law school student population but it didn't stop the law school scummers in mid to late 2000s and it won't stop them now. Those court cases with the sophisticated consumer line of reasoning encouraged this.

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mtobeinf (Jan 25, 2017 - 9:52 am)

Agreed. It's funny to me that a K-JD kid, upon graduation of college and prior to becoming an esquire, is considered a sophisticated consumer.

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6figuremistake (Jan 25, 2017 - 10:53 am)

I can't believe people still take these "average" starting salary figures at face value. LOL at the average UConn Law grad making $116k at graduation.

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barelylegal (Jan 25, 2017 - 10:06 pm)

I want to see the data for the schools on the bottom of the list.

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triplesix (Jan 26, 2017 - 2:18 pm)

And another one.

http://www.businessinsider.com/us-law-school-programs-where-graduates-earn-the-most-money-2017-1

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bucwild (Jan 26, 2017 - 3:07 pm)

I likely only noticed this because I live in Georgia, but I can't believe the average debt coming out of UGA law is almost $90k. Tuition is under $20k/year for in state residents, which make up the majority of the students, and UGA gives out lots of scholarship $.

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trollfeeder (Jan 27, 2017 - 10:06 am)

Sofi will only refinance loans for grads in big law with a certain amount of liquidity. That being said, of course someone who goes to a top school and gets big law will earn big money.

We are only talking about a minority of graduates that will have a chance to make that money, and even fewer who last long enough to do anymore than break even on their debt.

The prospective 0L has to consider their chances of getting admitted to a top school, but also whether the grind of being subjected to a big firm will be worth their prime earning years. Naturally, if tuition is being discounted or there is a full scholarship, that cuts out a large of the equation, but there are still caveats.

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soupcansham (Jan 27, 2017 - 11:40 am)

This is right and is why I said what I did upthread. These numbers come from that tiny pool of people who make biglaw and are refinanced by SoFi. The reason SoFi's business model works is that they minimize risk by only lending to successful graduates.

The federal government doesn't discriminate based on degree marketability or likelihood of employment. It spreads the risk and makes up for it with high interest rates. If it did discriminate, it would still run a risk because past performance is not an indicator of future success. It would always be somewhat of a crapshoot.

SoFi lets the government take the risk on defaulters, then pre-selects success stories for refinancing. They offer a lower interest rate than the feds but probably higher than is necessary to mitigate lending risk. It's a gold mine for them while taxpayers lose all of their paying borrowers.

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bucwild (Jan 27, 2017 - 4:04 pm)

Sofi does not require "big law". It simply requires a certain income, and a certain salary to income ratio. My friend makes under six figures in ID and refinanced through Sofi. However, his debt was under 50k. Yes, Sofi only takes low risk borrowers, but having a good credit score, manageable debt, and a decent salary will take you pretty far.

Sofi likely will refinance anyone who can already pay back their debt without requiring IBR.

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3lol (Jan 27, 2017 - 3:30 pm)

One of the worst values is apparently TJSL, where the grads make paltry average salary of just OVER 100k! Hahaha

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cocolawyer (Jan 27, 2017 - 6:19 pm)

Who are they kidding. I am doing better then almost all my counterparts in my 2012 class and I make in the low 100's.

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