Celebrating 10 years! 2007-2017

Goodbye AML/KYC jobs

It's only going to get worse for those attorneys who thought lifeofleisure11/16/16
AML is Dodd Frank? Thought it was BSA... bingojackson11/16/16
It is BSA. tttpride2511/16/16
Does anyone actually like AML/KYC work, and if so how long h tttpride2511/16/16
Did AML for a brief while. Got offered a 25% raise in a diff sobeitunion07/26/17
Curious, how do you get into it? Are there any books that I notreallyalawyer08/21/17
Who cares if people like it? It's a solid white collar non-s retard08/23/17
Huh? BSA/AML has nothing to do with Dodd frank , If anythin fompliance211/16/16
Op must be confusing AML with FATCA. Now that is a draconia secondcareerlawyer11/16/16
You don't even know what is going to happen in Congress. Peo thepoporcoming11/16/16
So, the Dems are going to plan to just filibuster everything tedandlisa12311/17/16
I don't think he's going to repeal much, esp not AML He's p fompliance211/17/16
As an individual in charge of and responsible for BSA/AML, t mtobeinf11/29/16
People working in fintech think a lot of the compliance prof tttpride2512/01/16
i practice in the financial services industry and have heard bingojackson12/01/16
Yeah, I remember when I started working in AML at a large fi tttpride2512/01/16
Depends on what you do. I am very fortunate to run the show mtobeinf12/01/16
Mtobe is 100 percent on point, FIU units will be there for r fompliance212/02/16
Great minds think alike. I'm in Wilmington DE and work for a mtobeinf12/02/16
I run a broker dealer AML program no banking arm, typical so fompliance212/03/16
I will say IBM has been trying to grow their AML advisory wo fompliance212/02/16
any chance i can email you some questions? ggnore07/26/17
BSA/AML will not go away but Trump will likely pick pro-bank turde12/03/16
Aml kyc contract jobs have been hit hard salary wise. Too m secondcareerlawyer07/26/17
I did AML/KYC for two years. It's glorified doc review, but dieter07/26/17
I work for a big bank in compliance and they fired a whole b tttpride2507/26/17
These jobs arent moving offshore so much as inshore. Goodbye secondcareerlawyer07/27/17
parts of AML/KYC can be automated, but a lot of it can't. S dingbat07/27/17
Yup. The latter example is exactly why chinese skills are in secondcareerlawyer07/27/17
SecondCareer - what exactly do you do in the isda swap space canon8307/29/17
Yea a lot of jobs are in jax and have been moving there for fompliance207/28/17
Also if u think Aml is glorified doc review then u are confu fompliance207/28/17
Good work itt as always fompliance. Your guess was presci vohod07/29/17
SecondCareer - what exactly do you do in the isda swap space canon8307/29/17
I don't want to derail the thread from its aml kyc focus so secondcareerlawyer07/31/17
Thanks Btw for those who may want to get into Aml or are fompliance207/30/17
Hey Fom, Been doing a lot of aml surveillance consulting compliancenoob07/30/17
Are u in the New York area? When you say consulting do yo fompliance208/02/17
Great advice, thanks. Been working in the NY/NJ area as a compliancenoob08/02/17
I would probably get cams it def helps for the junior/mid le fompliance208/02/17
Maybe. I have had a decent number of roles at various consul compliancenoob08/03/17
"Our Robots, Ourselves" - Mindell. For those of you worried kyakka08/22/17
eventually, everything humans do will be replaced with autom dingbat08/22/17

lifeofleisure (Nov 16, 2016 - 10:41 am)

It's only going to get worse for those attorneys who thought they had a thing going in AML/KYC compliance jobs. Dodd-Frank is history, and so are those jobs in 2017.

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bingojackson (Nov 16, 2016 - 11:24 am)

AML is Dodd Frank? Thought it was BSA...

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tttpride25 (Nov 16, 2016 - 12:22 pm)

It is BSA.

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tttpride25 (Nov 16, 2016 - 12:28 pm)

Does anyone actually like AML/KYC work, and if so how long have you been doing it?

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sobeitunion (Jul 26, 2017 - 12:53 pm)

Did AML for a brief while. Got offered a 25% raise in a different field about 2 months in.

I found AML pretty boring and repetitive after week 1. I was doing lower level stuff though, so YMMV.

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notreallyalawyer (Aug 21, 2017 - 5:24 pm)

Curious, how do you get into it? Are there any books that I could read so I could learn what is done so I could sound like I understand in a cover letter?

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retard (Aug 23, 2017 - 9:45 pm)

Who cares if people like it? It's a solid white collar non-skell job that pays moderately well.

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fompliance2 (Nov 16, 2016 - 2:41 pm)

Huh? BSA/AML has nothing to do with Dodd frank , If anything AML will grow AML is the most pro American law ever - it's goal is to stop money laundering and terrorist financing.

I've been in AML for about 10 years and love it

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secondcareerlawyer (Nov 16, 2016 - 2:48 pm)

Op must be confusing AML with FATCA. Now that is a draconian law that hurts businesses.

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thepoporcoming (Nov 16, 2016 - 3:17 pm)

You don't even know what is going to happen in Congress. People are quick to panic.
We know that enforcement won't be top priority, but repealing bills takes effort and a filibuster proof majority, brother.

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tedandlisa123 (Nov 17, 2016 - 8:07 am)

So, the Dems are going to plan to just filibuster everything? What if they pull the nuclear option?

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fompliance2 (Nov 17, 2016 - 7:06 am)

I don't think he's going to repeal much, esp not AML
He's probably going to target the volcker rule/DF and the DOL fiduciary rule my guess he only is able to change the DoL rule

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mtobeinf (Nov 29, 2016 - 7:19 pm)

As an individual in charge of and responsible for BSA/AML, this ain't going anywhere for any time soon. Moreover, Dodd Frank is entirely irrelevant to the subject. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

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tttpride25 (Dec 1, 2016 - 7:12 pm)

People working in fintech think a lot of the compliance professionals are going to be eliminated by advances in new technology. I wouldn't be shocked if it started happening much sooner than people think. They call it regtech. I've seen a lot of articles on this.

"Where we think regtech stands out is that the new technologies allow banks, insurance companies and asset managers to automate parts of the compliance process they previously were not able to automate,

https://www.bloomberg.com/enterprise/blog/fintech-spawns-regtech-automate-compliance-regulations/

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bingojackson (Dec 1, 2016 - 7:29 pm)

i practice in the financial services industry and have heard some rumblings about this. IBM purchasing Promontory is probably the biggest move I've heard for regtech this year. I'm imagining Watson rifling through a bank's records in less than a day

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tttpride25 (Dec 1, 2016 - 7:51 pm)

Yeah, I remember when I started working in AML at a large financial institution I told people they were going to find a way to automate this work. I started interviewing at fintech companies so I started looking into regtech.

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mtobeinf (Dec 1, 2016 - 8:14 pm)

Depends on what you do. I am very fortunate to run the show and have to deal with the entirety of all regulatory compliance issues. Nevertheless, if it's something such as AML you can automate potentially a good bit. But there has to be human interpretation. Offshore laundering at a big league level with all the various legal entities and specific documents and entity structures then determining out of the multitude of different funding scenaris that make sense to effectuate the plan on a long term scale needs an acute legal mind. Aide of accountant wouldn't hurt either though some numbers are predictable. Then couple acts of embezzlement by employees with books not on any system. Or even Source of wealth determinations incredibly idiosyncratic. Coupled with complex trust documents with direction clauses or hell discretionary distributions per HEMs. Then throw in other related corps various offshore locations with different secrecy laws render them uncooperative. Plus legitimate investment vehicles. Then expenditures from the web of entities but only with knowledge of a minute part with no way of knowing the other absent massive privacy violations. Ur left with human determination that's critical. Watson can suck it. And if I'm wrong well always have all the other laws that need analysis with compliance systems narrowly tailored thereto. Reg tech is growing. But never forget the courts always have the final word. After
The regulators of course. And examinations. Only the robot from the rocky movie can have those conversations. Plus conversations about the analysis and y decisions were made and how policies were crafted. How come x y and z. Reg tech is a tool to be utilized. Not end all be all.

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fompliance2 (Dec 2, 2016 - 1:34 am)

Mtobe is 100 percent on point, FIU units will be there for reasons - 1 bc reviews still require human steps and 2 bc the regulators want people doing this - 7 years ago when I ran BB Fui unit people were saying the same thing as today - let's automate bla bla bla

I also run my firms AML dept - large bd
What area are u in mtobe what kind of firm?

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mtobeinf (Dec 2, 2016 - 6:38 am)

Great minds think alike. I'm in Wilmington DE and work for a state chartered limited purpose trust company. Mostly institutional trust for employee benefit plans, foundations and non profs, and escrows for insurance/reinsurance on the one end. The other end is all personal trust seeking the DE advantage. It's really interesting because we re state regulated and have to comply with the fed regs as well. But since it's DE it's their interpretation of fed regs which further complicates matters. It's a lot of fun though. The other half of the job is running compliance for our daily business line operations, testing the same, ERISA, etc. I stopped practicing a couple years ago and fell into a great position after putting in short period of dues with the trenches grunt work as an info to AML. How bout you?

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fompliance2 (Dec 3, 2016 - 2:35 pm)

I run a broker dealer AML program no banking arm, typical sort of BD/WM firm, before that I worked in a few top global firms

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fompliance2 (Dec 2, 2016 - 1:36 am)

I will say IBM has been trying to grow their AML advisory work, there are a few firms now that are growing in this space, promontory was top notch but losing ground- In NY there are probably 2-3 top AML advisory firms - 1 specifically that is growing at a quick pace

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ggnore (Jul 26, 2017 - 12:05 pm)

any chance i can email you some questions?

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turde (Dec 3, 2016 - 3:55 pm)

BSA/AML will not go away but Trump will likely pick pro-bank heads of financial regulators. The three lines of defense will probably be scaled back and regulators won't lean on banks like they did before.

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secondcareerlawyer (Jul 26, 2017 - 3:08 pm)

Aml kyc contract jobs have been hit hard salary wise. Too many ex doc reviewers flooding the field. Unless you have 7-10 years in it is hard to rise.

I remember I had an interview with Ria, a money transfer business catering to Latinos. I had substantial experience doing this for Western Union. The offer was half what I had been making in a too big to fail wall st bank and with more responsibility too including travel to audit individual branches. No thanks.

Now I'm in Isda swaps compliance and relearning a new field. The pay is less initially but at least I don't have to scramble whenever budget cuts are threatened. There is certainly automation here but these are individually crafted deals worth 7-9 figures so banks keep a very human element involved.

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dieter (Jul 26, 2017 - 3:34 pm)

I did AML/KYC for two years. It's glorified doc review, but salaried.

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tttpride25 (Jul 26, 2017 - 10:20 pm)

I work for a big bank in compliance and they fired a whole bunch of people today.

You could put AML/KYC in the same bucket of a lot of these middle-class jobs. Companies are very resistant to raise wages right now.

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secondcareerlawyer (Jul 27, 2017 - 9:37 am)

These jobs arent moving offshore so much as inshore. Goodbye 6 figure back office jobs unless ED OR MD level on the coasts. Hello 50k salaries in Jacksonville or Colombus.

Edit: Chinese Mandarin skill still commands a high salary.

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dingbat (Jul 27, 2017 - 10:48 am)

parts of AML/KYC can be automated, but a lot of it can't.
Sure, an OFAC check should be simple enough, but a lot of the stuff I dealt with when I was involved with it was common-sense type things. Such as simply adding a news report that XYZ client just sold his/her company for a gazillion dollars to megacorp. No source of funds necessary - KYC completed within minutes, no need for the client to jump through the kind of hoops other people might need.
Or on the opposite spectrum, figuring out that the corporation is owned by a cayman trust that received its funding from a bermuda private placement insurance policy that received significant income from a british virgin island limited corporation, but was initially funded through a family limited partnership, and, oh my god why is there a panamanian entity managing it?

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secondcareerlawyer (Jul 27, 2017 - 11:13 am)

Yup. The latter example is exactly why chinese skills are in such demand. They are wealthy foreigners moving money through shell entities offshore to in many cases buy real estate in Western countries via naturalization schemes ( scheme as in the Uk sense of the word not Anerican). The problem is most of the people involved ARE pep's. Add the language barrier and the supply/demand matrix of qualified staff and you have a recipe for 6 figure associate salaries of consultants who can communicate in Chinese. And you won't find too many of them in Jacksonville or Ohio.

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canon83 (Jul 29, 2017 - 12:05 am)

SecondCareer - what exactly do you do in the isda swap space?

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fompliance2 (Jul 28, 2017 - 7:33 am)

Yea a lot of jobs are in jax and have been moving there for a bit, Deutsche bank, ML have especially been active in moving roles down there, I believe jp is in Columbus, NC is also hit right there are a lot of Aml being created there but at least for now most of the high paying AML jobs are still in ny nj

I would say the Chinese thing will pass the main reason it's hot is bc all the Chinese banks have been getting with massive fines but if u actually look at their aml officers they are American- there's one guy in particular that has been managing the Aml programs for these Chinese banks

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fompliance2 (Jul 28, 2017 - 7:34 am)

Also if u think Aml is glorified doc review then u are confusing basic kyc with Aml, the functions are completely different and so is the daily work

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vohod (Jul 29, 2017 - 8:37 am)

Good work itt as always fompliance.

Your guess was prescient and in retrospect your thoughts proved accurate.

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canon83 (Jul 29, 2017 - 11:30 pm)

SecondCareer - what exactly do you do in the isda swap space?

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secondcareerlawyer (Jul 31, 2017 - 10:15 am)

I don't want to derail the thread from its aml kyc focus so will keep it brief. I write guidelines and interpretations of credit support annex clauses and talk with negotiators. It is highly technical work that is overseen by mostly lawyers. Swaps is dominated by too big to fail banks, private equity, and mutual funds.

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fompliance2 (Jul 30, 2017 - 1:35 am)

Thanks

Btw for those who may want to get into Aml or are in junior level Aml roles I would advise u consider Aml audit ,it pays well and a lot of firms are looking for subject matter experts without audit exp, there is also a good amount of growth right now

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compliancenoob (Jul 30, 2017 - 8:56 am)

Hey Fom,

Been doing a lot of aml surveillance consulting for the past 3 years and been trying to weave my way into audit but no luck. Are there consulting roles for aml audit and any suggestions to help myself in the door with these roles?

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fompliance2 (Aug 2, 2017 - 7:27 am)

Are u in the New York area?

When you say consulting do you mean through a consulting firm -Kpmg,etc or do you mean as a temp employee?

What level/pay scale are u at?

There are a good amount of Aml audit roles esp those focusing on transaction monitoring correspondent banking, my advice would be to
1 focus on any project management skills u developed
2. Focus on any assurance/testing u did on the surveillance models - ie calibration/below the line/tuning
3. Consider getting a certification - if u don't have cams get it - if u do consider getting either an audit cert or maybe a cams-audit cert
4. Make sure ur applying to banks, consulting firms, broker dealers, insurance companies, etc ewvryone needs to be Aml audited every year

If u get an interview I can give u some additional thoughts but keep applying it'll come sometimes just takes time

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compliancenoob (Aug 2, 2017 - 9:43 am)

Great advice, thanks.

Been working in the NY/NJ area as a temp employee so I've been getting variable hourly rates ranging between $45-90/hr these last several years. I have had mostly junior roles but have had a few team lead/management positions in between

Don't have CAMS, yet. But I'm assuming I should have CAMS before getting any audit cert or does it not matter?

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fompliance2 (Aug 2, 2017 - 11:16 am)

I would probably get cams it def helps for the junior/mid level roles
I wonder if we've run into each other I have a pretty good network of consultant friends

What level of roles are u applying to? 1 issue u may run into is if ur making 90 ph ur probably asking for a pretty high base for full time work and usually those roles are management roles which usually don't go to consultants I've see many of my buddies get stuck in this cycle - make too much as a consultant but can't transfer to ft work bc u don't have the mgmt skills for the pay u want

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compliancenoob (Aug 3, 2017 - 9:49 am)

Maybe. I have had a decent number of roles at various consulting firms/banks.

To be honest, I have been applying mostly to junior level consulting roles (which have led to team lead promotions a few times). I have had a few AVP level interviews/interest in the past but I don't think I have been asking for too high of a salary (usually I ask for 110K-120K or so). Yeah, I know of a lot of consultants who fall in that cycle...some are consulting lifers who often tell me about the golden age of AML consulting several years ago where they would often make $100-150/PH with a nice stipend. So I can see how a lot of them get pigeonholed.

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kyakka (Aug 22, 2017 - 1:31 pm)

"Our Robots, Ourselves" - Mindell. For those of you worried about tech throwing us out, please read this book. Mindell is an engineer and also a professor of the history of engineering. He's participated in, and studied, numerous autonomous systems.

This book will change your understanding of the possibilities of automation, and your perspective on the role of automation in "eliminating jobs."

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dingbat (Aug 22, 2017 - 4:10 pm)

eventually, everything humans do will be replaced with automation. And then humans will be replaced with automation too. But that won't be my concern - I'll be dead, my kids will be dead, and my grandchildren will be dead.

In the here and now, what I do cannot be automated... yet. And my goal is to future-proof myself to through the next few decades, as best I can. I also want to steer my children toward careers that can't be automated that quickly.

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